#016 - Alien Nation 1.11 "Chains of Love"

0:02 Humans and aliens working together.

0:03 I really want to dig more into their culture.

0:05 It's a mirror up to humanity. Social commentary, Allegorical

0:09 storytelling. Wild, angry old man opinions.

0:12 And this is for adults. Odds in my podcast is current

0:15 and hip. Oh debatable.

0:17 It's. Just not funny.

0:18 Really dumb and strange do. You know what means and tank to

0:22 knees. Sork.

0:23 It's a beautiful dress, Mrs. Francisco.

0:25 Oh, thank you, Leonard. Love to paint you Mrs.

0:28 Francisco. Why don't you paint the house

0:29 for? Leonard Nimoy.

0:32 Fascinating. Leonard McCoy.

0:33 I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer. Is the patriarchy of those those

0:37 stifling me again? Yikes.

0:39 Such a bumble, but. Another great performance by

0:41 Eric per Point is George Francisco.

0:43 Soar. George Francisco is one of my

0:45 all time favorite characters. The show is going to go to

0:47 places that I really enjoy. Sour milk is a good thing to the

0:50 tanked knees. Soft with a subtle finish.

0:52 This is a packed episode. Stay tuned listeners.

0:55 We're both fans of Star Trek. Watching Alien Nation and we

0:58 enjoy it. I am one of your hosts, Todd.

0:59 This is. This is the Alienating Ourselves

1:02 podcast. Someone I respect give it a good

1:06 review. I thought I reevaluate it.

1:09 Greetings, humans and newcomers, and welcome back to Alienating

1:12 Ourselves, the podcast where we examine sci-fi entertainment

1:15 with a focus on aliens and the humans that they accidentally

1:18 fall in love with. I am one of your hosts, Todd.

1:21 I'm pretty sure there are some people in my life that probably

1:24 think I should actually try a love potion, but the joke's on

1:27 them. I would still have to leave the

1:29 house to meet someone. And joining me always is a guy

1:32 who very likely wooed his wife through sheer likeability.

1:35 It's Nick. Nick, how's it going?

1:37 Is going well, great to be here. I can tell you all exclusively

1:42 right here and now that I got my girl through trickery,

1:47 cleverness and dissection and a combination of a Shakespearean

1:51 plot and a teen romp from the 90s all rolled up and so great

1:58 to be here. Before we proceed, I think we

2:01 might have some listener e-mail we're going to look at.

2:04 Yes. So I believe I mentioned that

2:06 the very end of the previous episode but we were running kind

2:09 of long so we saved it for this time.

2:12 And Full disclosure, it is from my Co host on my other podcast.

2:15 It's from Preston but he wrote in to us to say happy holidays

2:21 to our guides into the world of Alien Nation.

2:24 I am a newcomer to the series and was wondering if there were

2:27 holidays that the show didn't touch on that you guys would

2:30 have liked to have seen just to see newcomers reaction to them.

2:34 Also, do the show ever touch on what the newcomers think of

2:37 yogurt? It would seem like that would be

2:40 interesting to explore. I must return to the end of

2:43 month reconciliation and I hope you guys are having a wonderful

2:48 recording. So he's asking about holidays

2:50 that we didn't see. We definitely saw Halloween in

2:54 one episode, but I'm not, I don't think they ever got around

2:57 to a Christmas episode. And so, yeah, it would have been

2:59 interesting to see how they would have handled Christmas or

3:03 Easter. Let me see what else.

3:06 I don't think we ever got a 4th of July.

3:09 So yeah, practically. Day of Descent was sort of like

3:12 a combination Christmas, Thanksgiving, I guess, when you

3:18 try and pinhole somebody else's culture into our structure.

3:24 But yeah, that might be as far as they get with that.

3:26 Yeah, yeah. And maybe 4th of July.

3:29 I mean, really, I think the only one they truly addressed was

3:33 Halloween, so just about anything would have been good.

3:37 So really, what Christmas, Easter, 4th of July, those are

3:42 the big ones. And like you said, one was kind

3:43 of like a Thanksgiving type thing.

3:45 So yeah, it would have been interesting to see their

3:47 reaction to just about any of the other major holidays.

3:50 We can see if Stella Nights and Eastern Philosophy have any more

3:55 religious stuff that comes up later with some sort of yearly

3:58 celebration. That might be as far as we get.

4:02 You remember the rest of the series better than I do, but

4:04 that's all I remember. Yeah, and I've, I've already

4:06 looked ahead at most of the episodes and I don't know,

4:10 remember, I'll top my head any other holidays.

4:13 And I think I kind of know why he's asking about yogurt because

4:18 I'm not positive. I know yogurt is.

4:20 Isn't it made from like fermenting milk or something

4:23 like that? It's got live cultures in it,

4:26 but maybe it's because it's sort of plumpy dairy.

4:30 I kind of wondered about newcomers and our food in

4:33 general. That's not their food if it's

4:35 not cooked meat. And we have a little bit of a

4:38 precedent because Emily Francisco eats Halloween candy,

4:42 so they must be OK with sweets in their palate.

4:45 Yeah. So I'm going to guess that they

4:47 can ingest yogurt without being disgusted.

4:50 Yeah, I'm wondering if they can also eat nuts or beans.

4:54 Well, there again, beans would have to be cooked, but nuts

4:57 wouldn't, and nuts would be vegetable adjacent.

5:01 Yeah, Do they? Are they completely?

5:04 Well, no. You thought Kathy might be a

5:06 vegetarian, right? Yes, and in fact I think I was

5:10 skimming through an episode the other day to find a clip for

5:13 something and she does say that she is.

5:17 Well now I can't remember if it was vegetarian or vegan, but

5:19 definitely that she doesn't eat meat.

5:22 But then we do see her eating a worm at one of the ceremonies in

5:25 one of the more recent episodes. So.

5:29 We're guessing she's not strict or she dabbles in bugs because

5:33 she liked the grasshopper molay as well.

5:35 Yeah, yeah. And as much as they do eat meat,

5:39 especially raw meat, maybe there are certain things that they do

5:42 almost consider like vegetable adjacent.

5:45 So maybe when she said she she doesn't eat meat, maybe yeah,

5:49 she was talking about the big stuff like like pigs, cows,

5:53 stuff like that. But then the like you said, the

5:56 insects, maybe she makes an exception for.

5:59 Yeah. So I do think that this is a

6:02 good example, Andrew, of asking silly questions that are

6:04 actually very, very quality questions that Todd and I could

6:07 still talk about. It's good stuff, man.

6:09 Thanks for submitting that. Yeah, yeah, I think yeah.

6:13 Oh, yeah. Just correct.

6:14 It was. It was Preston, not Andrew.

6:16 Preston, thank you. So we will get started in our

6:20 episode for today, but everybody please feel free to write in

6:23 with your comments, criticisms, suggestions, or really, really

6:27 bizarre questions that might make Todd and I go off on a

6:29 tangent that could just be fun. So let's get into it.

6:35 Today we will be discussing Alienation Season 1, episode 11.

6:40 Chains of Love originally aired November 27th, 1989.

6:46 George and Matter on the hunt for a lady newcomer who is big

6:48 on the online dating scene. And there's nothing wrong with

6:51 that unless your dates all turn up stabbed to death.

6:55 Meanwhile, George struggles with creeping fears and doubts with

6:59 his relationship at home. Susan Francisco is in a period

7:02 of newcomer pregnancy when they put out a Risvidi hormone that

7:05 makes them irresistible. So he's got to struggle with

7:08 that. This was directed by Harry

7:10 Longstreet, who's produced a season of the series fame, which

7:14 is big in the 80s, as well as short lived but wonderful series

7:17 Voyagers. That I've already ranted it

7:21 about to Todd and this is the first of three Alienation

7:24 episodes that he directs. He also wrote two of the

7:27 Alienation TV movies that we'll cover later.

7:30 This episode's written by Andrew Schneider and Diane Froloff who

7:34 have these two have written 7 episodes of the series and two

7:38 of the TV movies and they Co write 1 I think TV movie with

7:44 Harry Longstreet and his wife the director.

7:47 So this is the third of their seven episodes that we've

7:50 watched including the first cigar and three to Tango, which

7:52 are pretty great. So it seems like they're on a

7:55 roll so far. What is your first take away

7:58 initial reaction to this episode, Todd?

8:00 Well, this is a very middle of the road episode for me.

8:04 There's nothing frustrating enough to make it a bad or

8:07 disappointing episode, but there's also nothing impressive

8:10 enough to make it a lower level favorite either.

8:14 In fact, when we get to our sour milk and saltwater sections, I

8:18 really only have 4 bullet points for good stuff, and two of those

8:23 came at the last second. And oddly enough, only one thing

8:27 for bad stuff, which in a way is good, but again, for only having

8:33 one bad thing, you would think the episode would be better.

8:36 And it's still kind of middle of the road, so it's it's just even

8:40 enough to not have much to nitpick over.

8:43 But I'm just not super blown away by it either.

8:46 So how about you? Well, once again, I can't tell

8:49 if the plot was obvious or if I cheated by watching it already

8:52 years ago, but I still enjoyed it very much.

8:55 Also, one of my triggers is couples fighting and we see that

8:59 following questionable behavior by both Matt and George.

9:02 But that didn't lessen my enjoyment.

9:04 And there were some really creative writing choices in it,

9:07 especially for 1989. I think I I think I had maybe 2

9:13 positives and two negatives as well.

9:14 But then I had just a pile of I have to mention this things.

9:18 So I kind of threw them into those categories.

9:20 But we can just trot right along.

9:23 So looking at sour milk positives, Todd, what's your

9:26 first one? OK, so my first one is the big

9:29 one, but also not a huge surprise.

9:32 This episode gives Eric Pierpoint new acting

9:35 opportunities to show George turned on.

9:38 Feeling guilty, feeling jealous, denying, feeling jealous, being

9:43 disappointed when he meets in real life the woman in the Clara

9:46 Bow photo that he was originally kind of, you know, just looking

9:50 at the photo kind of almost turned him on in a way.

9:52 And so he has all these different acting opportunities

9:56 because in most episodes, we see him being very by the book when

10:00 it comes to his cop work. And we see him being a Family

10:02 Guy and we see him being faithful and religious and then

10:06 other times being angry. And so we've seen those sides of

10:10 him. But this episode gives him all

10:13 new angles to play. And again, Eric Pierrepoint,

10:16 just, you know, it is totally on point for all of those different

10:20 emotions and expressions and everything.

10:23 So yeah, another great performance by Eric Kerr.

10:25 Point is George Francisco. Yeah, I think one of my

10:28 epiphanies in the last episode was deciding that this was

10:32 actually the Eric Kerr point show that George Francisco is

10:35 the star and Matt is like a fun, rambly sidekick.

10:42 It's funny that that's your first one, because my first one

10:44 is very similar, but it's about Kathy.

10:47 Terry Trees has several things that she gets to do in this

10:50 episode. I can't tell if she's figured

10:52 out what her strength is or if it's the director, but she can

10:56 say a lot by kind of fixing Matt with a little squinty stare.

11:02 And she does this a few times and it doesn't just look like

11:06 she's scrutinizing him, which is what it looks like when I'm

11:09 squinting or or just that I need better glasses.

11:11 But it looks like she's kind of got him figured out.

11:16 So this happens a few times because Matt makes really

11:18 questionable choices. We also see a bit of what most

11:21 couples go through when they don't have the same interest or

11:24 tastes like You want to say, what's wrong with you for

11:27 enjoying or not enjoying something?

11:29 Kathy's a strong character. She doesn't need Matt, and she

11:32 doesn't like, wait around for him or pine for him.

11:35 She makes herself pretty open and available to him, and she

11:38 speaks honestly, but if he's being abrasive, she sticks up

11:41 for herself without going off on him.

11:44 Because of the culture and language barrier, the newcomers

11:47 representing maybe English language learners can have a

11:50 sort of innocence and a blunt way of speaking, and they can

11:53 miss nuance and subtext, and she does that really well.

11:57 And the language which she's like complaining about the Three

12:01 Stooges and she says. I don't understand why anyone

12:04 would hire them as carpenters. They're totally incompetent and

12:07 they're destroying the house and the language.

12:10 Do you know what Nick Nick Nick means?

12:12 And Tank Deniz. Trying to share something

12:15 special with you. If you can't appreciate it, just

12:19 forget it. I'm trying, Matt.

12:21 It's just not funny. How can you say that's not

12:23 funny? What's your idea?

12:25 Funny. I rented a tape of Herbie the

12:27 Love Bug. I thought that very funny with

12:30 Dean Jones and Buddy Hatchett. Kirby the Lovebug.

12:34 That's for kids. And this is for adults.

12:36 I should have known from outer space.

12:38 How can I expect you to have a sense of?

12:40 Humor. I have a sense of humor.

12:43 I just don't have your sense of humor.

12:45 So I was, I was thrilled with all of that, even the bad stuff.

12:49 Yes. So that's also similar to my

12:51 next one, which I said that I love how much Kathy finds Matt's

12:56 Sardanac situation hilarious. Yeah.

12:59 It's not. So in the episode we find out

13:02 that a woman is drugging dudes with love potion and then

13:07 appearing to them so they'll like her in spite of her

13:09 appearance, and Matt stumbles in and is like an imprinted on

13:14 Raptor. He's the first person that the

13:16 love potion dude sees, so the guy locks on to her.

13:20 So you're talking about the hallway scene when he follows

13:23 Matt home like a puppy dog and Matt asks Kathy for help and

13:27 advice in this difficult situation where someone's love

13:29 potion? I see he drank the Zardneck and

13:34 you were the first person he saw.

13:38 What's so funny? Matt, he's perfect for you.

13:43 He's exactly what you wanted. He's available.

13:45 He'll laugh when you want him to.

13:47 He's someone you can control. That's the heap for the help.

13:53 Yeah, and she just laughs like crazy.

13:55 And so it's great to see that too, because I think we might

13:58 have seen a little bit of laughing from other characters.

14:00 But Kathy, I think out of all the tinked knees, is the one

14:03 that is in some ways almost the most human like.

14:07 And so it's great to see her just just cackle at this.

14:11 I mean, she's having a good time.

14:12 She's she is thoroughly amused by this.

14:17 I try to. Avoid too much intimate contact

14:19 if I were you. Night, Matt.

14:29 She's very attractive. She yeah, she cackle is an

14:32 appropriate word. She goes into her apartment

14:34 cackling. That's my 4th positive.

14:37 And it's that when she first finds out that the guy is love

14:41 potion for Matt, her initial response is outrage and offense.

14:45 Like they've done this on purpose, like kids playing with

14:48 drugs and it's reckless. And then when she figures out

14:54 the situation, then she just, it cracks her up and she gets to

14:59 kind of get back at him because he was not just dismissive of

15:03 her and her sense of humor for not liking what he likes.

15:06 He was condescending about it. And she knows that with

15:09 Sardinac, if you take it with someone, they will like the

15:13 things you like and want to do the things you want to do.

15:15 So she gets to say he's perfect for you.

15:19 You can control him. He'll laugh at whatever you

15:21 want, which is really, really great.

15:23 But the other part of it is that he's saying, well, thanks a lot

15:27 for the help. So she kind of gets serious,

15:30 even though it's worse for us humans where she says a little

15:33 seriously, you know, have you had sex with him?

15:38 And but she's be and Matt says no.

15:40 And Marv, standing to the side, says not yet, not yet.

15:43 Shut up then, she. Says then it's OK and he's like

15:48 what's OK? And she says if you don't have

15:51 sex with him or her in a month, it'll wear off.

15:54 About a month. A month.

15:56 But a month is still a really long time.

15:58 Yeah. You've covered some of my

16:00 positives there as well. That was a wonderful scene and

16:03 it was great for death. All right, what's another one?

16:06 All right, so let me skip. I'll skip to the 4th one since

16:09 it's a little bit related, but I do like the way Matt makes up to

16:13 Kathy right at the end of the episode because he does go to

16:17 her with the Herbie the Love Bug tape.

16:20 I think it's a VCR tape and offers to watch it with her and

16:25 she's like, I thought you didn't like it and he says.

16:28 Someone I respect give it a good review.

16:31 I thought I ought to re evaluate it.

16:33 And that's great because those two little sentences is more

16:37 articulate than Matt has been in the last 10 episodes.

16:40 So I do like that he found a way of kind of sort of apologizing

16:46 to Kathy, but without, you know, coming right and saying he was

16:50 sorry. And it's clear that she accepted

16:53 it from the look that she gives him right after that.

16:56 Yeah, and and I have that written down as a must mention

17:00 it later, but the phrase it's, it got a good review from

17:06 someone I respect so I thought I should re evaluate it.

17:08 It's like a geek credo we should all follow now where it's like,

17:13 you know what, maybe if you enjoy it this much, maybe I

17:16 wasn't fair in my initial evaluation.

17:18 I should be more open minded about that.

17:21 And he's not. Neither of them is especially

17:24 right. Herbie is really, really stupid.

17:27 And I'm a fan of Herbie and I can watch more 3 Stooges than

17:31 most people. And Three Stooges is really,

17:33 really stupid. So they pick two dumb things on

17:36 purpose. But I agree with you, and it is

17:39 worth noting in this scene as well, listeners, this is 1989.

17:43 So when she puts in the videotape for him and he's

17:45 bringing VHS tapes to her place because this is 10 years before

17:50 we all started getting DVDs all the time, she says OK, and she

17:55 puts it in her VCR, which is in a rolling cart with a little TV.

18:00 And you got to understand in 1989, a few people had big TV's.

18:05 They might host big sports event party, but the vast majority of

18:10 us had these little TV's that you might think are a joke right

18:14 now. And her TV is very typical.

18:17 A lot of us would have watched these movies and rewatched them

18:20 on teeny tiny little boxes. So it's funny to me how small it

18:23 is. It's normal at the time.

18:26 My next is about something you already mentioned a little bit.

18:31 So we have this gorgeous, glamorous newcomer, Clara Bo.

18:37 We see a picture of, it's supposed to be a fax and a print

18:40 out. It's a glossy photo of this

18:43 very, very pretty newcomer lady. And George reacts to her

18:46 immediately. He's kind of electrified by the

18:48 sight of her. While he's obsessed with his own

18:51 wife's fidelity, he's kind of obsessed with this beautiful

18:53 woman image. He tells Matt that she's like

18:56 the newcomer equivalent of Helen of Troy.

18:59 This is the face that launched 1000 ships.

19:03 And I honestly didn't remember the episode that well.

19:05 So I thought this was going to turn out to be a fake image

19:08 entirely. Like we'll see a composite image

19:10 today made-up of multiple people or something.

19:13 But it turns out she's real and she's lovely.

19:16 And we tracked down the lady whose image is being stolen and

19:19 used and they bring her into the police station.

19:24 And this is what you already talked about.

19:25 But she turns out to be the most vapid model, ranting and raving

19:32 about how wonderful her career is right now.

19:36 My agent said she's never seen a model take off like I have.

19:39 You remember Christie Brinkley? She says I'll be bigger than she

19:41 ever was. I did the sound of all Fall Line

19:44 and the clients came to see the show.

19:46 Calvin practically begged me to come back to New York.

19:48 It was embarrassing. But where did you run away from?

19:51 I get hassled all the time by man well.

19:53 Thank you, Miss Bovee. I'm sorry if we've caused you

19:55 any inconvenience. You know, I don't think I've

19:58 ever been in a police station before.

20:00 Except for once in the South of France, I was with his count,

20:03 with his Duke or something. Anyway, he was wild for me.

20:06 We were in the hills above Monte Carlo.

20:07 Thank you, Mitch Bopry. And George, the illusion, the

20:11 lust, the passion, the fixation, it's all just destroyed.

20:15 He's just sitting there like, I don't want to listen to this

20:18 woman anymore. Finally gets her to leave and he

20:22 says. What a bumbo bimbo.

20:26 And then, but I, I did like that.

20:30 I think that there's a, there is not a primary plot line about

20:36 fantasy and reality and lust and, you know, real connection,

20:44 but they kind of sneak that in where it's like, you know, the

20:46 the person you might think a lot of, if you actually ever met

20:49 them, they're not that great. What's another you have?

20:52 Okay, so the only one I have left is that it's good finding

20:55 out that George and Susan had an arranged pairing but still fell

21:00 in love anyway. And it also satisfies a little

21:03 bit of curiosity I've had recently 'cause I've been

21:04 thinking about. I do like that we get so much of

21:08 the culture of the tanked knees, but there's so many things that

21:11 are involved. You know, like when they had the

21:14 Benom ceremony and Albert was wearing the the white robes and

21:19 everything, and they have candles for certain things.

21:22 And then I know that there's another ceremony coming up where

21:24 they have special materials that they have to use in that and

21:28 they've got certain prayers and they've got such specific items

21:33 within their culture. At the same time, they've also

21:36 talked about being kind of drugged by this gas on the ship

21:41 that kept them compliant and, and kind of under the control of

21:46 the Cleveland Sun, the the overseers.

21:49 And so I've kind of been wondering how is it they have at

21:52 the same time all of this freedom to have ceremonies and

21:57 the materials needed to do these ceremonies while at the same

22:00 time being so, so much under control.

22:03 And my guess is there had to be some kind of compromise.

22:06 Like I guess the overseers had to say, OK, yes, we these are

22:10 cargo. That's how they referred to in

22:11 the previous episode. These people are cargo.

22:14 They are slave labor. But at the same time, if we push

22:18 them too hard, you know, they they've got to have their rest,

22:21 they've got to have their free time.

22:23 They got to have this, that and the other.

22:25 And so I guess they gave them just enough latitude and

22:29 somewhere along the way, I guess they also let them be married.

22:33 But it also makes sense that some of these marriages were

22:35 arranged and possibly forced. But it turns out that even

22:40 though George and Susan might have been just like that, their

22:43 their marriage was arranged, they were forced to to be

22:45 together, they still fell in love anyway.

22:48 And so that's just a a nice bit of trivia that is both

22:52 reassuring about them as a couple and also makes a lot of

22:55 sense in terms of how their life was on the ship.

22:58 Yeah, and he mentions a thing. I have the word further down in

23:03 my document where he has a name for predestination.

23:07 But George is very romantic about the idea that they don't

23:11 date their newcomers. They sort of find each other

23:15 through fate, and he thinks a lot of them believe in that.

23:17 Although we've seen before that George has opinions about his

23:20 race and that they don't all match up to his ideals.

23:23 So I'm not sure how much that's at, but my next one is the

23:29 dating profile. So we go to new mate in You

23:34 mate, the dating service. And this is Internet dating in

23:38 1989. So it's really interesting and

23:41 cutting edge. And I think they might be doing

23:43 things with computers and the Internet that weren't real yet,

23:47 but they were like speculating about what it might be in 1995.

23:51 So what I like about this is that we get to see a profile

23:54 screen, and on the profile screen it mentions that one of

23:58 the people I think our first murder victim, Emerson hit, it

24:03 mentions his spotting pattern is back to Zoe and that he prefers

24:07 pentazoid spotting pattern on newcomer heads.

24:11 His hobbies include Palach, which we saw in the first cigar

24:14 episode, playing bassoon. He plays the bassoon and bacco,

24:19 which might have been another sport that I think Buck heard

24:23 about when he was in the get rich quick scheme that turned

24:26 out badly. His favorite foods were

24:29 crustaceans and spicy nematodes. Oh wow.

24:34 So now Clara Bo's comprehensive data profile says that she has

24:40 pentazoid spotting, which is what he was after, and her

24:43 favorite foods are ferret and muskrat and they match up on

24:47 spicy nematodes, and that she wants a guy who's musically

24:50 inclined and he plays bassoon. So they that worked out.

24:54 She wasn't just randomly picking guys, she was looking for

24:58 particular types. That was really interesting.

25:02 My last positive is, well, it's essentially that the guy who is

25:07 taking a love potion and is in love with Matt comes to the

25:10 station. They bring him to the station

25:12 once and it's very uncomfortable because he keeps mooning over

25:14 Matt and trying to find out everything he can about him and

25:17 he hates leaving. And of course, Matt is being

25:20 teased by Dobbs. But then the guy comes back.

25:23 Matt comes back to the station and finds Marvin.

25:26 He's waiting for him at his desk.

25:28 Matt's freaking out. And Dobbs is, of course, right

25:30 there, tongue in cheek, ready to make fun of him.

25:34 I got to tell you, listeners, you may not understand the

25:38 culture of 1989, but the word homophobia does not even begin

25:42 to cut it. We were taught in schools and on

25:45 TV overtly and subtly at that time that homosexuality was like

25:49 an illness, that it had an infectious quality, that men

25:53 needed to be, like, aggressively afraid of it.

25:55 And the attitudes and stuff were just extreme.

25:58 So when I tell you that this bit with Matt and Marv was

26:02 progressive, I can't even do it justice.

26:05 Dobbs teasing him about it. The way he teases him about it

26:08 is nothing. Dobbs teases him the same amount

26:11 that someone might tease me if my wife came to see me at work

26:14 and brought me a pie, like, oh, somebody got, that's it. 1989 Oh

26:19 my goodness, it was very soft for 1989.

26:23 What the hell are you doing here?

26:25 I brought you a present. I don't want any presents.

26:28 You're a heartbreak of sites. There are guys you really bring

26:31 out the color in your eyes. Dobbs, I'm warning you, you're

26:34 out of here now. Can I watch you workout?

26:36 I won't bother you. No.

26:38 Oh, sites don't be so. Rough.

26:40 On the guy here. So my last sour milk thing is

26:44 that there is this scene where Matt essentially has a breakup

26:48 scene with a man. Yeah.

26:53 And he pulls Marv into an office and he lets him down easy.

26:59 Which just staggered me that the writers did this.

27:04 I didn't remember this scene at all as a kid, and I'm guessing

27:06 it's because I didn't understand what was happening at the time.

27:09 But Matt does a textbook good breakup, I think about as well

27:12 as you can. I don't know if Matt realizes

27:14 that's what he's doing or if he accidentally fumbles his way

27:16 through it. But first, he tells Marv what a

27:19 great guy he is, that he's good looking.

27:21 You know what, He's going to find somebody else really soon,

27:24 but this is never going to work out.

27:26 Marv says, hey, can we at least be friends?

27:29 And he's like, no, we can't, but you're going to be OK.

27:32 Marv says, you know, you've made it abundantly clear it's not

27:35 going to work out. And I can't say I'm happy about

27:36 that, but I guess there's nothing I can do.

27:38 And he leaves. So it is this, this respectful

27:41 breakup between two men in 1989 on TV.

27:45 That's just. It was shocking to me.

27:48 So yes, that's my last class, Yeah.

27:52 Yeah, I guess it is interesting that they at least address that,

27:55 even if even if it's addressed as a weird situation, the fact

27:58 that they're broaching it all, I guess.

28:00 Yeah, it's kind of interesting. It's a weird dynamic.

28:03 I would submit listeners that no one showed a guy break up on

28:11 national television for a full 10 years after this scene.

28:14 I don't think it was done again that way for a long time.

28:17 I can't prove it or back it up, but I'm going to pass so we can

28:20 move into negatives well real quick.

28:23 So you were you mentioned something called Thakazoid and

28:27 for some. Reason.

28:29 Yeah, and for some reason that sounds familiar to me too.

28:32 Either I saw it not this time that I watched it, but maybe a

28:35 previous time, or maybe I saw it in a different episode.

28:37 But it seemed like I came across a geometrical term that did not

28:41 sound familiar. And as somebody who's, you know,

28:44 was into math, I majored in math and I kind of like geometry.

28:48 I don't think I've ever heard of Thakazoid.

28:50 And while you were talking, I was trying to look it up and

28:52 Google keeps wanting to say, did you mean trapezoid?

28:55 I'm like, no, I meant Thakazoid. And I'm trying to spell it

28:58 different ways and it is not finding it.

28:59 So I'm guessing that is a made-up term.

29:02 Oh yeah, specifically for Tankton E spot patterns and that

29:06 it's not a a true human English term.

29:11 Yeah, and we saw that. I can't remember what the

29:14 primary plot was in the episode when Uncle Mudri is visiting and

29:20 walks in the ocean and Buck comes clean about the accident

29:23 where he accidentally like killed a gang member.

29:25 But the we found out there was a data file and all newcomers that

29:29 had their spot patterns and had an index number, but it did not

29:33 have a name for the pattern type.

29:36 And it kind of makes sense that newcomers would have a name for

29:39 it instead of saying you're an easy 7341695.

29:43 But she's she's a pentazoid. We know Penta is 5, but it's

29:48 just, you know, I guess the spots can kind of have five

29:52 points ish, but they're none of them are pointy.

29:55 But yeah, no idea. But it is consistent.

29:58 So I think she likes factozoids. So George, when he makes up his

30:04 own artificial dating profile later, he says that yeah, he has

30:10 factozoid. We don't actually know for sure

30:12 what he does have. Yeah.

30:14 And I'm still trying to look it up because I, I didn't hear

30:16 that. I didn't hear that middle T in

30:19 there. I thought it.

30:20 Was factozoid and you said? Factozoid.

30:23 It's written on the screen in the.

30:25 Scene Yeah. So I'm still trying to spell it

30:27 different ways and it's still like I tried Factozoid spelled a

30:31 different a certain way and it says these are results for

30:34 Dakotazoid and I'm like Dakotazoid.

30:37 So yeah, it is not funny. All right.

30:41 So yeah, we can. We can move on to saltwater now.

30:43 Well, this is Harry Longstreet's first time directing an episode

30:47 of Alien Nation and I'll go first because my first one is

30:52 really dumb and strange. So I didn't look at the

30:54 cinematographer of this episode, but something bothered me about

30:57 the way it was shot. So I did my homework in a

31:00 cinematography to make sure I made some sense and didn't just

31:02 sound super hyper focused or completely crazy.

31:05 Knock on wood, it could be called consistent framing.

31:09 That's a capital C, Capital F, where you shoot a scene from

31:13 around the same place every time to make the viewer more

31:15 comfortable in the space. Think about the Bridge of every

31:19 Starship usually being shot from 1:00, general side of the bridge

31:24 with a few exception shots. Or it could be the 180 rule

31:27 where you as the director, you draw an invisible line between

31:31 the two people talking and the most of the action.

31:33 And you don't. You can go left, you can go

31:36 right, you can close an in, but you don't go past that 180 line,

31:40 that line stretching between them, behind them, because it

31:44 disorients the viewer as to who's on the right and who's on

31:46 the left. But whatever it is, in every

31:48 previous episode I believe I wasn't paying attention until

31:53 now. Matt and Kathy's hallway

31:58 designed so that Matt's door to his apartment is to the left in

32:05 the foreground, and Kathy's door is to the right way in the

32:09 background down the hall. There are only 2 doors on this

32:12 whole hall in the apartment and they are at opposite ends of it,

32:16 on opposite sides. But for this one episode, Matt's

32:21 door is way down to the right and Kathy's door is a way

32:25 forward to the left. They didn't like switch

32:28 apartments. They're just rotating the

32:30 camera. So now we see the invisible 4th

32:33 wall that usually the viewer in ATV show never sees at that

32:37 other end of the hallway. But I found it very disruptive.

32:44 So I think it's just this one director.

32:47 I, I don't know, I go back and look.

32:48 I might find that they did it a few times, but the way that it's

32:51 shot every episode, if you go to the apartment foreground left,

32:55 you're going to Matt's door. And in this episode, Matt comes

32:59 to Kathy's door a few times and it's it looks like where Kathy

33:04 would go to his door. So it's just they kind of

33:06 flipped it around. You can imagine if you saw the

33:09 basement in That 70s Show, Foreman's basement, but from the

33:14 other side where you're like looking past the stairs at the

33:17 wall, we never see. You'd be like wait, why do I see

33:20 the back of the couch or the back of the couch in like 20

33:23 shows? You know it's just we always see

33:25 it kind of from 1 angle. But thank you, that is my first

33:28 saltwater negative and I had to look up stuff to understand what

33:30 I was talking. About OK, All right.

33:33 And you are concerned talking about hairstyles?

33:36 See. So let me see.

33:39 So my one and only nitpick, and I know it's unusual for me to

33:42 only have one nitpick, is that Matt as usual makes everything

33:47 about himself. So I hate the way he over acts

33:50 or see me overreacts to Kathy not understanding 3 stooges and

33:55 then insulting her for liking Herbie the love bug.

33:58 It's just a another moment of him being a caveman and you know

34:02 making everything about himself and it's like you know.

34:04 And especially for, you know, me being one of the hosts of the of

34:09 discerning geeks portal. And we're also doing it here

34:11 too, where we try to be very reasonable about other people's

34:14 opinions. And even if we disagree, you

34:17 know, to not insult those other opinions.

34:20 I know in our two-part Star Trek episode, I have that that post

34:24 episode gripes about Star Trek Picard season 3 and a few other

34:28 things in Star Trek. But even then I don't say and

34:31 anybody who loves this show is crazy, you know, I don't I don't

34:33 say that. And so it does rub me the wrong

34:36 way when Matt, yes, makes it sound like Kathy is crazy for

34:40 liking Herbie the love bug and not understanding 3 stews.

34:44 I'm like, you know, you need, there's got to be a better way

34:46 of saying this. And of course, he doesn't know

34:48 it until the end of the episode. So yeah, that's my, oddly

34:53 enough, my one and only nitpick of the whole episode.

34:56 I did mention that in mine as well.

34:58 I think I kind of chalked it over to the Yikes Sykes section,

35:02 which can grow into all the really weird choices he makes.

35:05 But he is pretty abrasive and aggressive with her and he does

35:09 other stuff in the episode as well that are just bizarre and

35:12 over the top. So after she ticks him off, he

35:14 did this in another episode where he's ticked off and he

35:16 goes to work and he takes it with him and he has an attitude.

35:20 So he goes and sees George, who's jealous of his wife and

35:23 protective and concerned, and Matt gives him a horrible buddy

35:27 advice. I've done a terrible thing.

35:29 Good. It's about time.

35:30 I'm serious. I've betrayed Susan.

35:33 I've betrayed her trust. I went through her purse.

35:37 Oh my God. I thought she was with another

35:39 man. You're a real ping pong, George.

35:41 One minute you're hot after another woman, next minute

35:44 you're worried your wife's sleeping around.

35:46 Is she? No, what is important is this

35:48 breach of faith. I didn't even trust my own wife.

35:51 I know women. They'll lie, they'll cheat on

35:53 you. I told you before you're jealous

35:56 and you probably got good reason.

35:57 You should have given Susan a dose of sardinac.

36:00 You're jealous. No, jealous.

36:02 Jealous. No.

36:04 And when he enters the scene, he's complaining about women

36:06 drivers. Woman runs with life, almost

36:09 hits me. She didn't even see me.

36:11 Damien look, why did they let him drive?

36:13 That is extreme misogyny when you're like looking down on the

36:16 whole group of people. But it's not, it's not some of

36:19 Matt's best moments and I don't think he carries the anti hero

36:25 vibe as well as the writers would like.

36:27 I think he just comes across as a jerk in those moments.

36:30 That's definitely one of my negatives.

36:34 I'm glad they expanded on Sardinac in this episode.

36:37 The love potion that we saw in 15 with Wanda.

36:40 But at the same time, it sounded really dangerous to me to just

36:44 have it out there. So it worked for this episode's

36:46 plot. But based on this episode's

36:49 plot, you can make someone helplessly obsessed with you for

36:52 a month by drugging them, or forever if you roof either drink

36:56 and sleep with them. And that creates some serious

36:59 concerns as far as I'm concerned.

37:04 I'm not sure what they're going to do with that.

37:06 I think I only have a couple left and I can rattle them off.

37:10 Let me see. I'm surprised.

37:11 Ted, who we find out is the murderer and he's stalking

37:14 people who are hooking up with the girl that he hooked up with

37:17 and got love potion to because he's mad with love.

37:21 I'm surprised Ted didn't attack them when they're going into her

37:23 place instead of after they've hung out with her and they're

37:26 coming out. And that we find out about this

37:33 Rizvidi hormone that pregnant newcomer women are putting out

37:37 that makes them irresistible to men, any men.

37:40 And I'm just wondering if we started bottling that yet

37:42 because that that it would sell if we water that down as a

37:45 perfume. Apparently it's just maybe the

37:48 newcomers aren't thinking that way yet.

37:49 Maybe that's just me raising raised in a capitalist society.

37:53 But I also have to say, the way that the painters were leering,

37:58 I would not have left my pregnant, amazing smelling wife

38:00 alone with them either. They were like staring.

38:03 It was creepy. That's a beautiful dress, Mrs.

38:05 Francisco. Oh.

38:06 Thank you, Leonard. Did you know Leonard's an

38:09 artist? He's very good.

38:10 I'd. Love to paint you Mrs.

38:13 Francisco. Oh, well, thank you, Leonard.

38:17 Why don't you paint the house first, Leonard?

38:19 It was like, yeah, we'll take good care of your wife, Mr.

38:21 Francisco. Yeah, OK, Yeah, you, you guys

38:25 are fired. I either I'll do the painting

38:27 myself or or hire some women to do it or maybe some people to do

38:31 it or yeah. Come back in three weeks, which

38:33 doesn't. Smell like Yeah, you guys are

38:35 out of here. OK.

38:37 That does it for me for negatives.

38:40 OK, ready to connect the spots? All right.

38:44 So I think I'm tangled up in movie similarities with this

38:47 episode because it taps into some noir tropes and I didn't

38:51 realize that until I had gotten a few.

38:53 So my first one is that there's a movie called Laura from

38:57 19451944 by Otto Preminger. And if you haven't seen it

39:03 listeners, I strongly recommend it.

39:04 It's a wonderful movie. It just kind of pulls you in.

39:07 It's black and white. It's very cool, but in it a cop

39:10 sees a painting of a beautiful woman who has disappeared, and

39:14 he becomes sort of obsessed with the painting and the girl, even

39:17 though he hasn't met her. And I felt like they were really

39:20 doing some stuff with that, with George, with this picture of

39:24 Clara Bo that he keeps looking at and looking at.

39:28 Another one is Dressed to Kill, a 1980 suspense movie by De

39:32 Palma. I don't love De Palma very much,

39:34 but like Laura, it has a lot of Hitchcock style things in it

39:38 without being done by Hitchcock and I won't give the twists away

39:42 here, but suffice it to say it has some similar style with the

39:45 unknown killer in the shadows brutally murdering people of a

39:49 loose association for an unknown reason.

39:53 Sea of Love with Pacino and Ellen Barkin about a killer

39:56 finding victims through single at singles ads came out two

40:00 months before this episode. So I can't say it's an

40:05 inspiration necessarily, but it was definitely in some of the

40:09 public consciousness when they saw this.

40:11 Those are my movie connections. I've got some casting, but do

40:16 you have anything you wanted to bring up?

40:19 Yeah, so I've got a connection to bring up too, but I'll

40:21 actually save that for just a few minutes.

40:23 I know you usually have a lot of casting.

40:25 It's actually quite a bit in this one, but let me possibly

40:29 steal this one from you. Although you might have a ton

40:32 more on this person. But Ted Raimi plays Johnny

40:36 Appleseed, who is the, I guess consultant is what you might

40:39 call him at the dating agency. And Ted Raimi frequently works

40:45 with his brother, famous director Sam Raimi, who's done,

40:49 I think he did the Evil Dead series and then also the early

40:54 Spider Man movies. And Ted Ramey was also Jaxer in

41:00 Xena Warrior Princess. And that's the main reason I

41:03 wanted to bring that up, because I wanted to make sure I got in

41:06 the Xena Warrior Princess mention, because I know that

41:09 Joanna would be mad at me if I didn't.

41:11 Finally, a significant Xena Warrior Princess reference.

41:15 Did you know Jaxer appeared in 42 episodes of Xena 43?

41:19 If you count archive footage in a Season 6 episode, that's third

41:23 place in number of appearances, behind Gabrielle and Xena

41:25 herself. Xena Warrior Princess lasted six

41:29 seasons for a total of 134 episodes, which is one season or

41:34 24 episodes more than Babylon 5. This show in at least seven

41:39 awards, including an Emmy for music.

41:42 Com Wait, what's happening? Can you hear me?

41:46 Is it bad distortion? Are you kidding me?

41:50 Is the Patriot arc of Bozos stifling me again?

41:58 Yeah, Ted. Ted is a legend.

41:59 If you guys don't know Ted Ramey, you've seen him already

42:02 and he's when he shows up, it's just, oh hey, there's Ted.

42:06 My first one will be Jenny Moffett.

42:11 Little Jenny Moffett who turns out to be embroiled at the

42:13 center of everything. She hasn't done a lot, but she

42:15 was Snow White in the 1st 6 episodes of ATV show called The

42:19 Charmings, which was a wonderful high concept series that got

42:24 retooled after one season and then cancelled because they just

42:27 couldn't make it work. Think of it kind of like Once

42:29 Upon a Time, but a first draft. So you've got a sitcom, except

42:35 the sitcom is the fairy tale creatures and characters.

42:41 I liked it very much but Caitlin.

42:43 Jenny Moffett. She got recast after season 1

42:46 but she was the original Snow White.

42:49 Marvin, the guy who is interested in Sykes, played by a

42:52 guy named SA Griffin, and he's done lots of random stuff.

42:55 He was in Misfits of Science. I didn't draw the connection.

42:58 There are a couple of people in this episode for Misfits of

43:01 Science, but I have to mention him because SA Griffin also has

43:05 a tiny part. And my friend Anthony's favorite

43:07 thing ever, Battle Beyond the Stars, which is Star Wars RIP

43:12 off. That's also obviously a take off

43:14 of The Magnificent 7. If you can believe, there's not

43:18 much on Emma Bovary now, Teddy Wilson, Dr. Roscoe Brennan, our

43:23 coroner. This is his second appearance

43:26 and I just want to tell our listeners this is the final time

43:30 we're going to see Doctor Roscoe Brennan.

43:33 He just did 2 episodes. The man was in a little bit of

43:35 everything, but he actually died the year after this episode came

43:39 out. Not that young, he had been in a

43:42 lot up until then. Yeah, I noticed that too, that

43:44 he was like, like you say, in a little bit of everything.

43:47 And I thought that that continued and I thought maybe he

43:50 was even in a Babylon 5 episode, but I must be thinking of

43:52 somebody else because like you said, he didn't sadly passed

43:56 away. So yeah, I saw.

43:58 I must be thinking of somebody else.

44:00 Now, Ted Healy, who turns out to be our killer, is played by a

44:04 guy named Jeffrey Nordling, and he was in lots of random stuff,

44:08 time tracks and a single episode of Deep Space 9.

44:12 Bless him, because I was running low on Star Trek alumni Leonard

44:16 the Painter, who I just said was leering at our beloved Miss

44:19 Francisco. He was in The Outsiders.

44:21 His name's Darren Dalton. He's AI.

44:24 Don't know. Gosh, what's the tight, tall,

44:29 strong brick of a man? Squinty eyes.

44:31 Richard Gere Stare and it doesn't matter that much that

44:34 you're in The Outsiders, except that means you know several

44:36 successful actors including like Tom Cruise.

44:39 Well, Darren Dalton wrote, produced and acted with his pal

44:44 from The Outsider, C Thomas Howell in The Day the Earth

44:48 Stopped, which is what the Internet calls a mock Buster.

44:52 It's a take off of not just The Day the Earth is Still, but the

44:57 remake they made in 2008. But if you guys haven't seen the

45:01 remake they made in 2008, that movie is polished garbage.

45:04 So I may need to give this stinker a chance.

45:07 Then again, he also Darren Dalton also made Invasion of the

45:11 Pod People and Transmorphs so maybe I don't need to give it

45:16 another chance. These are the extra movies you

45:17 see thrown into cheap DVD multipacks.

45:21 You already mentioned the wonderful Ted Ramey, but Ralph

45:25 Emerson Bennett Lis is the actor and he only has 22 credits.

45:31 The thing that jumped out to me was that he was in the 1982 teen

45:34 romp Zapped with Scott Baio, where a guy can use a

45:39 telekinesis to pop open blouses and lift skirts, and it's

45:43 exactly as fun as it sounds, especially if you're 15.

45:49 We also, you know, this kind of bothers me, but there's a guy

45:53 named Tom Zimmerel. He plays Daniel Webster, and we

45:56 never see him. We just hear his disembodied

45:58 voices. Kathy introduces him in the

46:00 background in the apartment. He didn't even poke his head

46:03 around the corner. But Tom, this disembodied voice,

46:07 he acted. He stopped acting in 91 and

46:11 picked it up again 23 years later in 2014.

46:14 Since then, he's been kind of successful making a few Hallmark

46:17 Christmas movies, being in them. I mean, now there is a character

46:21 named Roland in the extended credits.

46:24 I was digging deep at this point, and I don't even remember

46:27 anybody in this named Roland. So I have no idea who this could

46:30 be. He could have walked up to the

46:32 snack cart that Ted Healey was running, or he could have been

46:35 the background of the dating service or something.

46:38 But Roland, I thought I should mention this guy Kurt Verber

46:43 shot because he quit acting quickly and he moved into the

46:47 art department where he worked on such projects as Independence

46:50 Day, Green Mile and one of Todd's favourites, The West

46:53 Wing. Even though I really don't know

46:55 who Roland was in this episode, but he's art department all the

46:58 way. He did lots of great art

46:59 departments. There is an uncredited

47:01 detective. You could tell I dug deep and I

47:06 just, this is what got me caught up before we recorded and I

47:10 disappeared. Because his name is Bob Harps.

47:13 And Bob Harks has never done anything that his family would

47:17 recognize him in, I don't think. But every scene where you've got

47:20 a bunch of people. So like if there's a scene in

47:23 the theater and you've got 20 people in the seats, they throw

47:26 Bob in one of those seats. If there's a jury, if there's a

47:30 stadium, Bob is in the background.

47:32 So this man has managed to be in two.

47:34 Planet of the Apes, Diamonds Are Forever, West, World Shaft, The

47:37 Sting, Chinatown, Young Frankenstein, 5 Episodes of

47:41 Kolchak, 48 Hours, Blue Thunder, Flashdance, Scarface, Splash,

47:45 Fletch, Die Hard, Robin Hood, Men in Tights, and Forrest Gump.

47:49 And I know what you're thinking, but was he in a Herbie movie?

47:53 Yes, he was. Herbie Rides Again, 1974.

47:56 In fact, if it was made between 1970 and 74, I think Bob was in

48:01 it. They seem to throw him into

48:03 everything that that part of the credits just goes on endlessly.

48:07 Oh yeah, and he was an uncredited priest in Star Trek

48:11 The Next Generations Times, Arrow Part 2 and 2 episodes of

48:15 Deep Space 9. Thank goodness.

48:18 Oh, and the last three things he did before he stopped acting

48:21 were the last three Alienation TV movies in 9596 and 97.

48:27 What a life. The only other person in here is

48:32 John Meese, who plays a character I don't remember at

48:35 all named Lance. Lott is uncredited and he did an

48:39 episode of X-Files, but I don't know who this Lancelot guy was

48:41 where he showed up, and that does it for me for connecting

48:44 the spots. OK.

48:46 All right. So somewhere along the way there

48:48 you mentioned time tracks, which is one of those things that has

48:52 fallen into obscurity. I would not be surprised if it

48:54 is not available anywhere out there or if it is it's probably

48:59 for free and very low resolution on YouTube.

49:02 But that is one of only four TV series that were on the PTN

49:09 network, the pseudo quasi half existent network that included

49:16 Babylon 5. Those were two of the only shows

49:19 on there with the other two being Kung Fu.

49:22 The legend continues in point man.

49:25 I've never heard of point man. So Speaking of Babylon 5.

49:31 So we we've already talked about a little bit before we've got

49:34 that one scene where there watching the Three Stooges, Matt

49:38 is laughing like crazy and Kathy is not getting it and she's

49:41 asking questions. And that feels very reminiscent

49:45 of a scene in very early Babylon 5.

49:48 It might have been in like the first or second episode where

49:52 Garibaldi has like two or three of his favorite things in the

49:56 universe and one of them is like lightly implied to be sex.

50:01 But apparently another one is Duck Dodger cartoons and near

50:05 the end of that episode he is watching a cartoon.

50:07 And he is, he wanted to share that with the hot telepath who

50:12 is on the station. But it turns out he ends up

50:15 sharing that with Dylan, the Menbari ambassador.

50:19 And she does not get it. And they're eating popcorn.

50:22 And at one point, she asked him a question.

50:25 And even worse than Matt, when she asked him this question,

50:28 Garibaldi doesn't answer the question.

50:29 He just continues to laugh and points at the screen.

50:32 And it's like, could you at least answer her question?

50:36 And so it felt very similar to this scene with Matt and Kathy.

50:40 And at least Matt did answer the question, even if he kind of

50:43 lost his temper and wasn't happy that she was asking so many

50:45 questions and didn't get it. But yeah, there were definite

50:48 similarities between the two scenes.

50:51 And yeah. And did you say that you were

50:54 done with connecting? The spots done with connecting

50:57 the spots. So then I also have Dobbs, watch

51:01 Dobbs watch. Dobbs is in fact in this episode

51:05 just enough to make fun of Matt for the Sardanac situation and

51:09 his involvement is spread out over 2 scenes in the police

51:13 station and in the second scene I think he only gets 2 lines.

51:17 Missing completely from the episode are Emily, Captain

51:21 Grazer, Albert, Jill and Burns. And barely in the episode is

51:27 Buck. He is only in one scene, barely

51:31 raises his head. He's like trying to listen to

51:33 music and do his homework. And his dad is grilling him with

51:36 questions. And so he has his head down most

51:39 of the time. I don't know if he ever does

51:40 look up. And I think he even puts his

51:42 earphones off of only one ear. So.

51:45 So yeah, he's in one scene, being very distracted in that

51:49 scene. And so that's it for Dobbs.

51:53 Watch Dobbs. Yeah, yeah.

51:56 And I mean, I think the writers, I mean, I'm very sad to think

52:00 that we might not see Dobbs after this episode, but I feel

52:05 like the writers really love Emily, and they squeeze her in

52:08 as much as they can. So when she's not in it, it's

52:11 like, I don't know, maybe she had to do school that week and

52:14 Buck barely had anything to do, like you said.

52:17 So I think we are ready for the Albert Einstein Awards, which is

52:23 complicated this week. Yeah, it is.

52:26 Do you have the full list? Because I've got 7 contenders.

52:30 I think so. So I'll, I'll read off the

52:32 contenders. There's Alex.

52:35 Now when I say contenders, I, I don't know if these are oddball

52:39 names or if they're just regular names.

52:41 Some of these are pretty obvious.

52:43 The others, you might have more homework than I do because I

52:47 intentionally try to avoid looking them up.

52:49 But there's Alex Bell, who is a murder victim from last week.

52:53 And when I say last week, I mean, it's mentioned in this

52:56 episode this last week in terms of story time, Johnny Appleseed,

53:00 who is the consultant at new mate Clara Bo, who is a

53:04 participant at new new mate Jenny Moffett, who's Claire's

53:08 maid. You know, allegedly there's a

53:11 little bit of shenanigans going on there.

53:13 Ted Healey, someone who dated Clara Bo, Daniel Webster,

53:17 Kathy's date and Marvin Garden's the Clarebo date that sees Matt

53:22 first after taking Sardinet. So are those the same 7 that you

53:27 have? I've got additionally the the

53:34 credits mentioned Lancelot, although we never see Lancelot.

53:41 Middle initial E. Yeah, right.

53:45 Is your name. My name is Sir Lancelot of

53:47 Camelot. And the first victim is Ralph

53:51 Emerson. Oh, OK.

53:53 Yes. And listeners, Ralph Emerson is

53:56 a famous writer and abolitionist.

53:59 Ralph Waldo Emerson, Daniel Webster you already mentioned,

54:04 but there are some weird ones in here.

54:06 So like you mentioned Jenny Moffett, and I could not find a

54:08 Jenny Moffett. Does that name mean anything to

54:10 you? No.

54:12 Yeah, I, I'm pretty sure that that's just a name.

54:15 And I, I search a little bit. I, I have no problem hunting.

54:19 The other thing I will say occasionally Todd will do this

54:23 thing where he digs deeper or he makes a guess or someone has a

54:27 unique first name and he thinks maybe this is their last name.

54:30 And I don't usually partake in that.

54:32 Except the painter at the house, his first name was Leonard, and

54:38 I was wondering if his last name was Da Vinci.

54:41 But it doesn't make any sense for immigration people to name

54:45 you something based on what turns out to be your gifts or

54:49 line of work necessarily. But who knows?

54:52 That was just me doing that thing that you do.

54:55 Well, all right, so so that would work out with him being a

54:58 painter. I didn't even think about that.

55:00 The first thing that came to my mind going towards Star Trek

55:04 would be either the actor Leonard Nimoy.

55:07 Fascinating. Or the character Leonard McCoy.

55:11 I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer. Yeah, but we will never know and

55:16 there are a couple of others. So when George makes a fake

55:20 profile on Newmate, he uses the name George Drum.

55:24 That sounded weird to me, so I looked it up and there isn't a

55:28 famous George Drum, but there is a famous drum manufacturer.

55:32 There are two big manufacturers and one of them is George Way

55:36 Drums, so there could be a joke there I'm not sure about.

55:42 And the last one is we find out that Clara Bo isn't a a real

55:46 person. She's a fictional person that

55:49 Jenny has made using a picture of this other woman that they

55:52 tracked down. And that woman is Emma Bovary.

55:56 And I only know who this is because my AP English teacher

56:00 made me read it for an ongoing project.

56:02 And this is the novel Madame Bovary by Gustav Lubert, about a

56:07 woman who is never satisfied with what she has to the point

56:10 of ruin, which is very poignant to the journey that Jenny goes

56:14 on, but that's Emma Bovary. Yeah, I missed her, so I'm glad

56:20 you picked that up. Oh, and Ted Healey, did you look

56:23 up who? Do you know who this is?

56:25 No, but it sounds familiar. Well, but no, intentionally did

56:29 not look it up. Irony.

56:30 No, I would never have guessed Ted Healey was the highest paid

56:33 vaudevillian in the 20s. Which doesn't seem that

56:36 important, except he created the Three Stooges.

56:41 Oh, OK. Yeah, so the chances of it being

56:44 an accident are pretty slim. I don't think he can win because

56:48 neither of us had ever heard of him.

56:50 And Clara Bow is a famous silent film actress.

56:53 I did know that one. And for you younger listeners,

56:57 there is a song by Taylor Swift called Clara Bow about her,

57:01 which means that Todd's in my podcast is current and hip

57:05 debatable. Just heads up on that.

57:08 So yeah, I don't know if you have an opinion on this because

57:11 based on the ones that we know that we would recognize without

57:14 research, it'd probably be Alex Bell or Johnny Appleseed or

57:19 Daniel Webster or Marvin Gardens.

57:22 Marv is a pretty big deal in this episode, so it might need

57:25 to be Marvin Gardens. What do you think?

57:27 I miss Alex Bell. At first you, I apologize.

57:31 Maybe you did explain this and I was looking at my notes and

57:33 maybe didn't hear you, but I assume Alex Bell is short for

57:37 Alexander Graham Bell and I just now you thought of that.

57:42 So that one is maybe a little bit too subtle.

57:45 I totally miss the Ralph Emerson.

57:47 Johnny Appleseed I know is a very recognizable name.

57:49 The thing is, I don't know exactly what that story is.

57:53 So even though, yeah, I recognize the name, it's in my

57:55 head because of, you know, cultural consciousness.

57:59 For some reason, I don't know the details behind it.

58:02 The others sounded familiar, but I didn't know Daniel Webster

58:05 would be a good one because I assume that's like Webster is in

58:08 Webster's dictionary. But my.

58:11 Story called The Devil and Daniel Webster.

58:14 Oh, OK. All right.

58:15 But yeah. So then my vote does go to

58:19 Marvin Gardens because in all of these other examples, it's

58:23 basically just a famous person's name that is put on a regular

58:28 person's name. But the interesting thing about

58:30 Marvin Gardens is, is if it is what I think it is, it's a

58:34 reference to one of the properties on the Monopoly game

58:39 board. Yeah.

58:40 And so it's interesting because it's actually referring to a

58:43 place rather than a person. But because Marvin is also the

58:47 name of a person, it can go both ways.

58:49 And so yeah, that is where my vote goes.

58:52 Yeah, I I agree. So Marv and Marv does a lot in

58:55 this episode. He he does a lot of heavy

58:57 lifting acting wise too. So yeah, definitely our winner

59:02 of the Albert Einstein Award this week is Marvin Gardens.

59:04 Yay. We move on to I have to talk

59:08 about this. Is there anything that you just

59:10 you had to talk about? Not necessarily have to, but I

59:13 did kind of list the tectonies facts that we learned this week.

59:17 1 is one that you've already mentioned that there's a hormone

59:20 for pregnant women called Rasvidi hormone and it makes men

59:25 go wild. There's another mention of

59:28 getting natural UV. Oh, and also for all their

59:32 cultural differences is it is, excuse me.

59:35 It is interesting to see Jenny be self-conscious about her

59:38 appearance, particularly her burns, the way a human would be.

59:43 And then one that I didn't have written down until just a few

59:46 minutes ago was that we also see a double knife meant to stab

59:51 both hearts of a tanked knees simultaneously.

59:54 Yeah, that was an interesting choice, and they didn't go out

59:58 of their way too much to explain it, but those of us watching the

1:00:01 show since the beginning were like.

1:00:04 Oh. You don't see a lot of those.

1:00:06 I have to mention. The show starts and toward the

1:00:11 end we hear it again with this pop song that Jenny Moffett

1:00:15 likes to play in the background during her dates.

1:00:18 It sounds like a 50's pop song and it's all in Tank Deniz.

1:00:23 The only word I think I can make out is Sork, and it's kind of

1:00:29 like do the Mashed potato, do the jerk, do the such and such

1:00:35 kind of dance song. Except sort.

1:00:38 Have some more tea. If you can get an audio of that,

1:00:45 man, I just, I tried a little bit.

1:00:47 I looked around the Internet and I couldn't find anything in

1:00:49 isolation. But I love that they went to the

1:00:52 trouble to record a pop song in Tanked and Knees.

1:00:55 If you find out in your research that it's totally in English and

1:00:58 I just have bad hearing, I don't know if I want you to tell me.

1:01:03 I think Gary Graham read in the script that his character loves

1:01:07 the Three Stooges and as an actor he went out of his way to

1:01:10 learn 3 Stooges bits because he doesn't just do like the he does

1:01:16 like the whole hand over the top boing Ding things and stuff.

1:01:21 So he really got into it. I'm not saying that that was

1:01:24 rewarded, but I think Gary Graham tried very hard.

1:01:29 I want to say that I like the Herbie movies very much.

1:01:32 They do not hold up for adults. Y'all don't have to watch them

1:01:36 but I've seen them all. Not counting the two reboots

1:01:38 that I know of. And in the 80s when magic

1:01:41 adventures for children were limited and there weren't a lot

1:01:43 of cars that were alive. Kirby was the bomb on Disney

1:01:47 Sunday night. George and Susan having strong

1:01:52 opinions on Sardanac was really really cool.

1:01:54 So I think you mentioned it before, but Matt asking them if

1:01:58 they did it is a pretty reasonable question.

1:02:00 After 15 with Wanda kind of makes it sound like all

1:02:04 newcomers did it like as part of their marriage or mating ritual,

1:02:08 they just obviously are going to take the formula together.

1:02:13 And George is like, it's none of your business.

1:02:14 And then you like stares at him and says no.

1:02:19 But it turns out there's a whole back story the writers came up

1:02:22 with for this and that was really cool.

1:02:24 So it sounds like most newcomers do take Sardinac, and that the

1:02:30 Franciscos are a little bit unique, which to me would mean

1:02:35 that infidelity among newcomers must be pretty rare because

1:02:39 they're all on the juice. Although Kathy obviously has a

1:02:43 negative opinion of it because she feels like it's making

1:02:48 someone someone else's slave. She hasn't even had this

1:02:50 conversation with the Francisco. So maybe a lot of educated

1:02:54 newcomers dislike the idea of Sardanac.

1:02:58 Oh, I mentioned George thinking that the tank Deniz don't search

1:03:01 for mates. They feel a sense of

1:03:03 predestination that he calls Roka.

1:03:05 The subtitles say ROWKAH Roka. I missed that one.

1:03:11 He asks where Susan is and when Buck is shrugging him off, he

1:03:15 says we need a new harness for the pod.

1:03:18 Maybe she went shopping and Buck says she already ordered it.

1:03:22 Well, I do remember enough of what's coming to know what

1:03:24 they're talking about. But the fact that they just

1:03:26 throw out in this episode the phrase, we need a new harness

1:03:29 for the pod. Yeah.

1:03:34 The listener is like, wait what? What?

1:03:37 You mentioned Buck and what he's doing, but I just love that Buck

1:03:40 is studying. He seems in good spirits.

1:03:44 George doesn't seem to notice. But when Buck stands up, gets

1:03:46 his books and leaves the room, he stops and turns and touches

1:03:49 his father's temple affectionately, the way they do

1:03:52 with like 2 of their fingers. I thought that was really cool.

1:03:56 Matt says that Claribo is obviously a Black Widow.

1:03:58 And George says Claribo is not an arachnid.

1:04:01 He doesn't understand. Oh, and I thought that it was

1:04:05 really cool. So we think that Jenny Moffett,

1:04:07 who is disfigured, is looking for love.

1:04:09 We think she's desperate for human connection.

1:04:12 But George essentially points out to her, she used the love

1:04:15 potion on the first guy, who's a handsome guy, Ted.

1:04:19 And she's like, why did you keep going after Ted?

1:04:22 And she says he wasn't enough. So she wasn't just looking for

1:04:25 love or physical touch. She was actually still a pretty

1:04:28 shallow person who wanted to feel that feeling again, where

1:04:31 lots of people wanted her and thought she looked amazing.

1:04:35 So that was an interesting twist for me.

1:04:38 Yeah. Oh, and you might like this.

1:04:41 But when Ted is shot at the end and they check and he's still

1:04:44 alive, Matt calls for backup. He says when William 152.

1:04:49 I went back to the Night of screams to see if he used the

1:04:52 same radio call sign and he does so for you trivia heads.

1:04:57 I think Matt and George are car 52.

1:05:00 Oh, all right. OK.

1:05:01 Yeah, Susan, you had mentioned to me that Susan and George, I

1:05:06 think Susan calls George Nemu sometimes.

1:05:09 So this is the first time I heard it.

1:05:11 I had not noticed it before, but now that I was paying attention,

1:05:14 I noticed her calling in Nemu. And yeah, you already mentioned

1:05:19 that. So that does it for I have to

1:05:21 mention this so we can move on to our scores.

1:05:24 I talked a bunch so you want to go first.

1:05:26 Yeah. So, yeah, one other thing.

1:05:28 It wasn't in my notes, but something I just thought of.

1:05:30 And in fact it was. It's kind of in that same scene

1:05:32 where I mentioned the thing about the double knife and you

1:05:35 said that the the guy gets shot, but when the guy is using that

1:05:40 double knife, he does actually stab George in the shoulder.

1:05:45 And George doesn't seem that bothered by it.

1:05:46 And in fact, he goes home. In fact, when Matt calls for the

1:05:50 ambulance, he doesn't call for extra any extra first aid for

1:05:53 George. And when George goes home and

1:05:58 Susan sees the blood on his on his shirt, she's alarmed and

1:06:03 he's like, it's no big deal. So I'm wondering if the tank

1:06:07 Deniz do not have that much important going on in their

1:06:10 shoulder area if somehow the the blade very much missed, you

1:06:15 know, every single nerve, every single muscle, it is there a gap

1:06:19 in there. You know what's going on with

1:06:20 their with their anatomy in their shoulder that he can take

1:06:23 a stab wound and it be nothing. So.

1:06:26 I thought, yeah, yeah, I had not noticed that, but you're right.

1:06:29 He, he is. They're really injured in that

1:06:33 scuffle. George is lying there,

1:06:35 incapacitated for the most part. So it didn't occur to me that

1:06:39 then he just goes home and has a a sweet moment with his wife.

1:06:45 Yikes. George is tough.

1:06:47 Right, so now I'm done. So what is your score for this

1:06:50 episode, Todd? How do you rank this?

1:06:53 So like I said, kind of middle of the road, I'm going to give

1:06:56 this AB. And I mean, I really kind of

1:06:59 summed it up in the beginning. There's nothing frustrating.

1:07:02 There's nothing super bad that that brings it down.

1:07:05 It's in fact, this is the first episode where I've only had one

1:07:09 nitpick, but there's just not enough super impressive stuff to

1:07:13 make up for that. And so yeah, it's just the

1:07:15 middle of the road. B Nothing, nothing usually

1:07:19 wrong, nothing hugely amazing. So it right in the middle.

1:07:22 How about you? I like this episode very much,

1:07:25 not just because there was lots of Kathy, but there was by

1:07:29 bringing back Sardonak, by adding biology to the newcomer

1:07:32 pregnancy cycle, and with the guys trying to not be jerks to

1:07:35 their ladies while hunting down a noir Dame.

1:07:38 There's a lot of good stuff in there that I enjoyed.

1:07:41 I also give it an STA score for how many Star Trek alumni are in

1:07:45 it, and this was Slim Pickens, man.

1:07:48 Grazer wasn't in this one. Burns wasn't in this one.

1:07:51 I was really left with Matt, George and Susan as my base,

1:07:54 three of Star Trek alumni and Ted Healey.

1:07:59 Jeffrey Nordling was in Deep Space 9 and that brought me up

1:08:02 to four. I really didn't think I would

1:08:03 find anybody until I positively scoured the credits and found

1:08:07 this invisible extra who's in everything, Bob Hart bringing me

1:08:11 up to five. So this has a very low SDA score

1:08:14 of five. I guess that supports your

1:08:17 middle of the road estimation. I liked it, but this episode is

1:08:21 just OK. Yeah.

1:08:23 It doesn't have enough Star Trek alone.

1:08:27 So we are what you wanted to say this next part, You take it,

1:08:31 man. Yeah.

1:08:32 So I didn't realize this until earlier, but this is episode 11

1:08:37 of the series and there are 22 episodes in the one and sadly

1:08:41 only season of the show, which means we're at the halfway

1:08:45 point. So I was wondering if maybe we

1:08:48 should do like a little bit of halftime show, like a little bit

1:08:50 of halfway evaluation and say, how do we like the first season

1:08:55 and what are we hoping for or expecting in the second-half of

1:08:59 the season? Do you have anything you want to

1:09:03 start with? Or since it's my idea, do you

1:09:04 want me to go first? I will say that when we watched

1:09:08 the movie, which I think I saw once a long time ago, so I was

1:09:12 seeing with adult eyes with James Caan and Mandy Patinkin,

1:09:16 and I hadn't realized how much race was involved.

1:09:20 And Matt Sykes, the character grows over the course of the

1:09:23 movie and he's not quite as much of A bigot.

1:09:26 And then the series starts and he backtracks and he's a super

1:09:29 bigot all over again. And I lost a lot of heart

1:09:33 because I did not remember it that way.

1:09:36 Well, as we watch these episodes, I felt like they

1:09:39 started out with so much race and so much connotation that I

1:09:44 was still going to enjoy it. But I was in way over my head.

1:09:47 Like I had no idea how much the show is actually going to keep

1:09:50 being about that. But I do feel like it eased off

1:09:56 after three episodes and the pilot in the 1st 2:00 and it

1:10:01 started to have prejudice in episodes, but every episode was

1:10:05 not centered around prejudice. And I think that that has been

1:10:10 borne out. I think the show Matt is still

1:10:13 not great at times. Like in this episode I mentioned

1:10:17 way too misogynistic, shockingly so.

1:10:20 But he's not like that in every scene.

1:10:24 He's not like that to the point that you really want him fired

1:10:26 from the show. At least I don't I don't know

1:10:28 top. You might be able to take leave,

1:10:30 but I have like the general direction that the show has gone

1:10:34 in and I have enjoyed the way that the characters have

1:10:38 evolved. I've enjoyed a lot of the things

1:10:40 I remembered from before. They are as rich or as fun as I

1:10:45 had thought they would be. So that's awesome.

1:10:47 What about you? Yeah, so I am definitely

1:10:49 enjoying it so far. I am glad that some of the best

1:10:53 episodes we did get in this first half.

1:10:57 You know, I was a little bit worried that it would take too

1:11:00 long for the show to to slowly develop, especially since one or

1:11:04 two of the not stellar episodes we did get very early on.

1:11:09 But one of the things I've noticed from reviewing the first

1:11:12 half the season now, but also sneaking some peeks at the

1:11:15 second-half the season is that the entire season has kind of

1:11:20 like an interspersed good episodes and lackluster

1:11:25 episodes. So it's not like it's a constant

1:11:28 ramping where it just keeps getting better and better and

1:11:30 better and better. It's like a constant give and

1:11:32 take, which technically is kind of consistent with TV in the 80s

1:11:37 and 90s. And we, you know, we've talked a

1:11:39 little bit before about our love of Star Trek and Star Trek The

1:11:42 Next Generation is definitely one of those shows where you

1:11:45 could have an absolutely stellar classic episode one week and

1:11:48 then a stinker the next one. And then go right back to a

1:11:50 stellar and then maybe somewhere along the way have an average or

1:11:53 above average but not quite seller episode and then a

1:11:55 lackluster episode. So it keeps the quality keeps

1:11:58 going up and down. And I've definitely noticed that

1:12:00 so far. But I do still like the show. 1

1:12:05 of the things that has impressed me even more than I already knew

1:12:10 it would was just how great Eric Pierpoint is in his performance

1:12:15 in a lot of episodes. And one of the things that I'm a

1:12:18 little bit disappointed by though, is plot wise.

1:12:22 I was kind of hoping that some of those episodes or some of

1:12:25 those episodes that I remember because of certain key scenes, I

1:12:29 was kind of hoping the episodes would be great overall when

1:12:33 maybe more times than I would like, we kind of get an episode

1:12:36 that's like lacklustre a little bit along the way and then all

1:12:39 of a sudden in the last scene or two, they hit you with some

1:12:42 really super memorable moments. Also overall, I wish there was

1:12:47 less police work and more tinctonies cultural stuff, but

1:12:51 they do kind of intersperse it. I can't help but wonder if that

1:12:55 was kind of like the intention all along or if they kind of had

1:12:59 to do it because this was on Fox in the early days.

1:13:03 And in order to get your science fiction, kind of like the way

1:13:07 you kind of have to give a dog a heartworm pill wrapped up in

1:13:12 cheese. I wonder if the police work is

1:13:15 the cheese when what we really need is the the science fictiony

1:13:19 stuff and that's the pill. Yeah.

1:13:23 So so yeah, I do have a mix of emotions about things, but

1:13:27 overall it's still positive and I do still love the show

1:13:31 overall. And this is reinforcing my

1:13:35 opinion that George Francisco is one of my all time favorite

1:13:38 characters. I do just wish that Matt were

1:13:41 less frustrating along the way, that he would grow and change

1:13:45 more quickly, and that instead of like getting a great episode

1:13:50 one week and the lackluster one the next week and back and

1:13:53 forth. I wish there was more of a

1:13:54 building effect. But yeah, overall I'm still very

1:13:58 glad that we are reviewing this show and I'm still enjoying.

1:14:01 Yeah, for those of you with a racist in your life that you

1:14:06 haven't cast off, that you're trying to work on them and

1:14:08 whittle them down and hopefully you have hope and you're not

1:14:11 just putting up endlessly with a toxic person.

1:14:14 Matt is supposed to be that person that you like slowly deal

1:14:19 with. And they're not hopeless and

1:14:20 hateful. They're just nice and kind with

1:14:23 horrible habits and ugly things will just jump out of their

1:14:27 mouths sometimes. And you're like, you can't say

1:14:29 that. And they'll be like, oh, shoot,

1:14:30 right, can't say that. Bang.

1:14:32 Like I said earlier, I think what comes across instead is we

1:14:37 all want him to just be a good guy.

1:14:40 We don't want him to be an evolving, improving racist.

1:14:44 So when he does those bits in the script, I think it's more

1:14:48 frustrating than anything. Or like, you know, why do they

1:14:53 let women drive? It's you're not accomplishing, I

1:14:57 think what they set out to accomplish.

1:14:59 But what do you, what do you anticipate for the rest of our

1:15:03 for the second-half of this venture?

1:15:06 What are you looking forward to or expecting or hoping for?

1:15:09 Change or stay the same or what? Well, like I said in my sneak

1:15:14 peek, I've already noticed that the quality goes up and down.

1:15:17 In fact, there's a really weird episode that I just barely

1:15:23 skimmed through before that I remember hardly any at all.

1:15:28 That is, oddly enough the next to last episode of the season.

1:15:31 A little bit before that, there are a couple episodes, a couple

1:15:35 of other episodes that I just barely skimmed through, so I

1:15:38 still don't totally know what they're about.

1:15:40 But two of the best episodes of the season and similar to one

1:15:46 that we've already reviewed, an episode that I would consider

1:15:48 just a great episode of science fiction and great episode of

1:15:52 storytelling in general. We've still got two of those

1:15:57 episodes coming, and I thought that they were coming really

1:15:59 soon, but unfortunately we do have a few more in between.

1:16:04 So I really look forward to those.

1:16:06 But those are something like 3-4 or five episodes away.

1:16:09 OK, So, yeah, I mean, we've already had the episode where

1:16:15 there's kind of like the impregnation of Susan.

1:16:19 So that we, I mean, I don't think it's a huge spoiler to say

1:16:22 that there is a baby coming. I mean, why else would they do

1:16:25 that unless there was a miscarriage?

1:16:26 And I'll go ahead and give that much away and say there's not a

1:16:29 miscarriage. That would be very unhappy and

1:16:32 depressing. So there is a baby coming at

1:16:35 some point, and that's the good stuff.

1:16:39 So yeah, I can't wait until those episodes.

1:16:43 Yeah, I'm getting deeper and deeper into what I expected,

1:16:47 which is to say a lack of memories.

1:16:50 I know one thing that's coming to do with the baby, and they

1:16:54 alluded to it in this episode. I think I remember the

1:16:58 cliffhanger at the end of the series that you've alluded to,

1:17:03 and I feel like I've seen the first TV movie multiple times.

1:17:07 I think I got that on VHS tape. But I am going to guess that the

1:17:11 vast majority of what's coming is going to completely surprise

1:17:14 me. I think you're right.

1:17:17 I got into this pretty sure that I liked Matt Sykes, that I liked

1:17:21 the Francisco family very much, even Uncle Moodri, and even Buck

1:17:25 to some degree. He's a lot less obnoxious than I

1:17:28 thought he was but and that I loved Kathy.

1:17:33 But I have found that you're right and that it's not just a

1:17:36 matter of liking the Francisco's adult me is just blown away by

1:17:42 what Eric pair point gets to do with this part.

1:17:44 So like Kathy is good and Susan is good, but Eric Pierpoint gets

1:17:48 this range of emotions and these things that he gets to do.

1:17:52 So it is fun to see him make those decisions and I'm enjoying

1:17:55 that a lot. So we will see.

1:17:58 Yeah, yeah. And those two episodes that I'm

1:18:00 saying that are coming, that are really stellar, the odd thing is

1:18:04 they're right back-to-back. I thought they would be spread

1:18:07 out a little bit more, but they're not.

1:18:09 Are either of those written by the Schneider Froelov duo, do

1:18:15 you think? Yes, the second of the two is

1:18:21 yes. Yeah, so they are.

1:18:24 The two of them are pretty good at writing new lore and biology

1:18:29 and culture as though it's very authentic.

1:18:32 It just sounds right. So when they say that there's a

1:18:35 a hormone that affects them in this way, we as the viewer just

1:18:39 like, yeah, yeah, that matches up.

1:18:41 So. So yes, that's good.

1:18:44 I'm glad. I'll look forward to that and I

1:18:47 am. Todd is a little bit aware of

1:18:49 what's coming. He has a better memory of these.

1:18:51 He listened watch them more than I did in the past.

1:18:55 I hadn't seen them since 1989, the episodes, maybe one of them,

1:19:01 but I can't remember which. So a few things stuck out to me,

1:19:04 and you're looking ahead at a few of them, and I haven't done

1:19:07 that at all. So we're going to bring those

1:19:09 two different kind of viewpoints in as we explore.

1:19:11 So that's going to continue to be kind of interesting, and

1:19:15 it'll help that you kind of have a little bit of that insight

1:19:17 going over the next few episodes.

1:19:20 So we're ready to move forward. Yep.

1:19:23 All right, listeners coming up next time on Alienating

1:19:28 ourselves, Nick and Todd explore episode 12, The Red Room.

1:19:33 Break in at a behavioral lab and a series of execution style

1:19:37 murders dredges up buried memories for Francisco.

1:19:40 That's right, more buried memories for Francisco.

1:19:44 I'd be frustrated if we didn't all enjoy the last couple

1:19:47 batches of buried memories for Francisco.

1:19:49 So I'm up for this. Let's go and join us next week

1:19:52 as we find out what 1989 writers think a behavioral lab is.

1:19:56 I know something about behavior professionally, so I'm kind of

1:19:59 curious about that myself. So Todd and I will help you find

1:20:03 those answers. You come join us next time.

1:20:05 I continue to be Nick. I'm Todd.

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1:20:26 As always, may all your milk be as fresh or as sour as you

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1:20:35 before you drink their tea. Have a great week.

1:20:38 Goodnight everybody.