#019 - Alien Nation 1.13 "The Spirit of '95"

0:01 Humans and aliens working together. I really want to dig more into their culture. To mirror up to humanity. Social commentary, Allegorical storytelling, Wild angry old man opinions, Robots. Lasers. Right on time. He's always said that they move and the speed of plot. The man is clever. Is that a fish in your hand or am I just glad to see you? Oh, I guess I didn't say that correctly. That's awesome. He's just adorable. No spawn boat with a with a click at the beginning. No spawn boat how you say I love?

0:28 You and tanked me. Sadly, this might be the end of Dobbs. Watch Boo. Eating about anything out of the garbage is a a big no no in the human world, which is a small special hell. What about what? About what? About toy toity. Point of order, blah blah blah. Point of order, if we send a letter has to be on the president's letterhead. The Alien Nation version of a West Wing episode. What? There's no motion on the. Floor How do you like to be on the floor? Matt, he's just. Adorable. No fun but word. Francesco is one of my all time favorite characters.

0:58 The show is going to go to places that I really enjoy. Sour milk is a good thing to the tanked and knees. Soft with a subtle finish. This is a packed episode stay. Tuned. Listeners, we're both fans of Star Trek. Watching Alien Nation and we enjoy. It I am one of your hosts, Todd. This is Nick. This is the Alienating Ourselves podcast. Greetings humans and newcomers, and welcome back to Alienating Ourselves, the podcast where we examine sci-fi entertainment with a focus on aliens and the humans that try to stifle their inalienable rights.

1:26 I am one of your hosts, Todd. I've lived in my house for 25 1/2 years and I've never been to a homeowners association meeting, nor do I understand exactly what my monthly $15 dues are actually for. And joining me, as always, is the guy who probably wants to exclaim point of order every time I start to ramble. It's Nick. Nick, how's it going? It's going very well, Todd, because I haven't had the all point of order or use anything having to do with Robert's Rules or parliamentary systems for a long time, so doing pretty OK.

2:00 I think we're going to encounter some prejudice on my part in this episode as we bump into things like homeowners associations, but I don't have $15.00 to pay every month, which means whatever they're doing right for you isn't getting done for me, and I really need somebody to get on that. Tonight we are going to get into Alienation Season 1 Episode 13, The Spirit of 95, which originally aired Monday, January 15th, 1990 as Susan and Buck campaigned for Tank Deniz. Suffrage bombings and kidnappings are linked to the anti newcomer tourist organization, so the newcomers are fighting for the right to vote.

2:35 Susan Bucker signing up to help at the Alien Vote Amendment campaign headquarters, which sounds really sweet until there's a bomb threat and they're all standing in the street as the building blows up. So the obvious suspect is the United Purist Party, which claims to not be involved. And when Buck sees Wyatt Earp, which is the name of a newcomer campaign manager, he gets grabbed off the street in broad daylight. George and Matt will have to walk into the hate speech organization looking for answers, which is gross.

3:03 But maybe there's more to this case than meets the eye. This episode was directed by Harry Longstreet, who produced 7 episodes of Voyagers, which is a forgotten show that I really like, and 4 episodes of 1985's misunderstood and immediately cancelled series Misfits of Science. He wrote for Voyagers and V and two of the Alienation TV movies, and he also directed a very memorable first season episode of X-Files and three episodes of Alien Nation including Chains of Love, which I think we rated as OK.

3:36 This was written by Tom Chihack who wrote for a few weird favorites like The Scarecrow and Mrs. King, Jennifer Slept Here, Briscoe County Junior and The Forgotten Show Mr. Merlin, which I thought I had imagined in a fever dream but turns out to be real. He also wrote Alienation episodes The Takeover and The Night of Screams, which had some good bits but some very unique writing choices. So what was your first reaction to this episode, Todd? So similar to our previous episode that I didn't have to rewrite that part of my notes.

4:12 I this is a very middle of the road episode. There's nothing frustrating enough to make it bad or disappointing, but nothing impressive enough to make it a lower level favorite either. Now we'll elaborate a little bit more in saying that I do like that this is all about voting in a campaign, which seems relevant because it seemed like we're always in the middle of a, some kind of political campaign cycle. It's like as soon as we get out of one, it's not that much longer before we're in one. And nowadays politics is constantly in the news.

4:47 I mean, the, the news is just a relentless cycle, unfortunately. And I have my own opinion on why it's, you know, worse under certain circumstances, if you know what I mean. And so it feels relevant and therefore more poignant at the same time. After watching this at least twice, and even skimming through bits and pieces of it just a few minutes ago, I wish it had a little more oomph for being as important as it should be. So what do you think? Well, this episode bugged me, Todd, I think because on the surface level you're, it's about talking to purists, which was done well.

5:29 So it kind of made my skin crawl and the subtext kind of triggered me a little bit because of our current political climate, which you were referencing. So we'll I'll get into that later. But there's a secondary theme about the importance of being an active part of our democracy and not being jaded. And I guess I like how they conveyed that. So I continue to try and see the good and everything. But there were definitely some negatives to this episode, so we can move into our positives. The sour milk section.

5:58 You want to go first on this. Yeah, so the weird thing is it's kind of similar to previous weeks here. Recently, I don't have 5 of each five good things and five bad things. I've got more like 3 and 4. But my first of the good stuff is an angry George Francisco is an awesome and motivated George Francisco and I love the way he goes to confront the purest leader at purest headquarters. And while that is still a a good thing, I do like that. Since I'm, I'm already implying that I kind of have mixed emotions this week.

6:37 I do wish that scene had a little bit more because when I was watching it again, I was like, oh, yes, that scene is coming up. Oh, I can't wait. I want to see what George does because I, I can't totally remember from the last time I watched it. And it turns out that, yeah, he's he's great, but I think there could have been more to it. And I don't know if it was the writing, like they didn't give him enough lines, or it was the directing that they didn't build up the tension enough, but it it. But you know, we keep talking every week about how awesome Eric Pier Point is.

7:11 He definitely could have made a lot out of that scene, like even more than he already did, if they'd given him more. And I kind of feel like he didn't have a whole lot to work with. So it was good, but I also feel it could have been even better. And which scene are you talking about? Like when he goes to confront the purist leader. Yes. I think it's because they suspect that the purists are the ones that planted the bomb. And so he goes to basically say, you know, you almost blew up my family. And it's kind of like walking into what does that all say on The Walking to the belly of the beast or something like that.

7:47 Or yeah, he's going into enemy territory and he doesn't seem afraid at all. And he even gets not roughed up, but some, you know, some tough guys who were there kind of surround him acting like they they might do something to him. And he doesn't seem intimidated. If any of your followers come to me, my family, or my home, I will hold it against you personally and tear you apart with my bare hands. Don't threaten me, Detective. I am simply reminding you that forceful denial can go two ways. You know, like I said, it's a, it's a good scene, but I, I was kind of hoping for more.

8:24 Yeah, he doesn't actually get to say or do a lot in that scene, so I see what you're saying. But it is it mostly plays as tense and how they treat each other. But yeah, that's our our chief racist, purist leader in charge, Clay, Max Clay. He's a good actor, so he does a pretty good job of playing a committed true believer, terrible person. He feels like, you know, this is an actor who could very convincingly play ahead of a cigarette company or something. Maybe he has. So you just believe that he believes it.

9:01 And he knows all the rhetoric. And it's those conversations are not fun to listen to in real life or in most TV shows if they're done well. My first positive. So what you're talking about, a lot of my positives in this episode are really going to be the snippets we get of newcomer culture, fun interactions, things over to the side. And I think it's because of some of what you're talking about. So the first one is that Susan wants Matt's rotten garbage that falls from his exploded paper trash bag.

9:32 At the time, we still had trash taken out in paper bags, I guess, but it explodes in the hallway. She comes out, they engage in conversation where she reminds him there's a meeting coming up for the homeowners association and asks him if she can have part of his garbage that's in foil that luckily we don't see. He's disgusted but smiles politely, if a little bit grossly and says sure. And she just carries it away sniffing it like. And of course I just think Terry Trees is adorable. So we cannot smell things in TV.

10:07 We can hear them talk about smells but nobody literally did in this scene. So while I give Kathy the benefit of the doubt, I think I said Susan before, but while I give Kathy the benefit of the doubt for being adorable, if I was Matt in this situation, this might be the first real turn off that she's thrown out there. We he may need to culturally let her know that eating about anything out of the garbage is a big no no in the human world. Even if it's a a pristine piece of food, it's still kind of like, oh, that is gone.

10:41 You need to let that go. But if he does watch her carry off something rotten to put in her mouth, and I don't know, the potential for making out at some point would be severely decreased. But we can't smell it, so I can still live in the happy world where it's just a cupcake and tinfoil and she carried it off. You know, I am so glad that you clarified that scene for me because I thought instead of him taking out the garbage that he was bringing in groceries. Yeah, yeah, it was. I thought that at first too.

11:12 But yes, it was exploded garbage, which and that's that's not your fault because you and I and any viewer, if you viewers try this show now and you see him with a paper bag, there's no way that's garbage. But in 19891990 it could have been so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because I, I remember growing up, I, I did have one set of neighbors that use paper bags instead of plastic bags for, for garbage. But, you know, I don't think anybody does that now that I know of. And it would also make sense because I remember you pointing out one week something about the configuration of their hallway and whose apartment is on the right and whose is on the left.

11:49 And I had just happened to notice that like less than an hour ago when I was skimming through bits and pieces of it again. I was like, wait a minute, why is he walking with his groceries in that direction when his apartment is behind it? And now that now that you say it's garbage, it makes sense. He's walking out with it, not in with it. So yeah, now it now it all comes together. But see, you've pointed out why it's important to be consistent with that, because his room needs to be on one side of the hall, so we know whose door he's approaching.

12:19 If he's walking toward the foreground, he's walking toward the screen, toward past the door on the left, we might think he's going home. So we're going to assume that it's groceries. You make perfect sense. And I'll skip to it and just go ahead and tell you. Listeners, they flip it in this episode. We get one of each. Her room is on the left in the foreground, and it's on the right in the background. And it's crazy. So I'm happy. I've ruined it for you too, Todd. I like to spread that misery. And now you're aware of it, you're going to see it and, you know, pick it, pick a side, just just one end or the other.

12:58 But yes, we need the. Consistency. But there's still something that's confusing. What exactly was she smelling out of his garbage that was so good that she wanted? Because they don't eat cooked meat and he probably had something cooked and then maybe it was raw and maybe he didn't cook anytime. Maybe that's why I was throwing it out. But we've also established that she is supposedly a vegetarian, and so even if it was something that was a vegetable, wouldn't it have been rotten? It's like, what exactly was she so OK with if it was his garbage?

13:34 Because even if it was raw meat, if he's throwing out, it's probably because it's not good anymore. And you would think, even if she does make exceptions to her whole vegetarian rule, that she would still want fresh meat. I don't know. I can't imagine what it was in his garbage that she was like, oh, yeah, that's fresh. I want that. Yeah, it the contest clues implied to me that it was rotten, whatever it was. And we have no reason so far to think that newcomers are excited by the smell of anything rotten.

14:07 So I guess it's better for us and continuity that we don't know what it is because we can maybe try and fit it in later. My best guess. You've given me ideas. It's hard because like you said, she claims to be vegetarian, so if he cleaned meat and had leftover raw bits before he cooked the part he was interested in, she might have wanted that. If she's vegetarian, I don't know how they feel about fish, but if it was part of a fish carcass or other animal carcass bones or something that she is OK with, or maybe she's breaking her diet because it just smells too good.

14:44 But yes, that's my best guess. But you listeners, you e-mail in and tell us what you think was in the mysterious foil.

14:54 What's your next positive, Todd? So when finding out that Matt has so badly dropped the ball when it comes to getting his neighbor the ramp sooner than he did, I thought, oh, no, we're going to get another caveman moment where Matt, like, somehow blames it on somebody else or gets angry or just gets grouchy about or anything. But if that doesn't happen, he's he's come a little ways now and he seems much more open minded to learning a good lesson. He realized, oh, crap, I have dropped the ball. This isn't good.

15:28 Kathy has pointed out something important and I accept that. Yeah, I screwed up and I need to make up for it and I need to do better from from now on. So I thought that was a a good moment and it it plays a little bit better than some of his moments in previous episodes. Well, and this is my second one as well, but from a different angle. So Misses Gilleroo brings Matt, what, like fish or something, some husband meal she used to make for her husband as a thank you for fixing that ramp up for her.

15:59 And he carries it down the hall to Kathy because he's disgusted that Kathy has clearly gone behind his back and done it because he was a jerk and forgot. He's embarrassed. She opens the door and she sees him holding this plate and she says hi. Hi. Is that a fish in your hand or am I just glad to see you? Oh, I guess I didn't say that correctly. He's just adorable. So in this scene, Kathy gets to sort of share the story of Miss Gilleroo because she's explaining herself. I think Terry Trees is getting a lot of fun material from the writers, so they must like her as much as I do.

16:37 She's not a part of the a plot at all in this episode. She has like nothing to do with the purists or the campaign headquarters or anything, but she still gets this like cool little monologue. She uses the phrase out of order at least twice, Like was I out of order? And to me, that kind of suggested that she's not clear on if humans really talk in Robert's Rules outside of meetings because she's been in a neighborhood meeting with Matt and them and they're all using that phrase, that turn of speech.

17:07 Who put the ramp in? Oh, I called a contractor. Is it all right? Mrs. Gilleroo gave me fish and onion. She thinks I did it. Well, I told her, well, you know, you are the president. I didn't mean to be out of order. I would have done it of. Course you would have. Why didn't you just tell Gilleroo you did it? Why? Well, I don't. I don't know. Have you ever talked to Mrs. Gilleroo? Yeah, we had a nice exchange about fabric softener. She moved into this building when it was built. She raised three children here.

17:35 Her husband passed away right down front. What does this have to do with a ramp up the back stairs entrance? Mrs. Gilleroo wanted you to be president because she trusted you. She was glad you were here to run things. I guess I didn't want her to think you didn't care. I'm sorry, was I out of order? No, I guess I was. So she's thinking that that's how people really talk. Was I out of order when I did that? That's my second one as well. OK. So let me see. My last one is that it's nice to see Matt watching the election night with the Francisco's and rooting for them to have the Tanktonese right to vote.

18:14 It's nice that Matt has, like I said, kind of come a long way in being more supportive and accepting of the Tanktonese. And also he has a better attitude about government and democracy by the end of the episode because there's somewhere in the middle that we kind of learn why it is he has a bad attitude. We've seen this before, like his attitude about church and family. There's always something that goes wrong and it seemed like it's very easy for him to have like 1 bad experience for something and then just totally shut himself off from that aspect of life.

18:49 And so it's nice to to see that he has a little bit better attitude and to realize that yes, some things are more a mix of good and bad and sometimes you can't just reject something because of 1 bad experience. And so, you know, he's able to accept the good in democracy and voting and, and how government works. So. So that was good to see. Yeah, and I think that we can tell in this season, they only got one season, but one of their things they like to do is come up with a big social idea and then have our characters encounter it.

19:23 So we've done reproduction, we've done love and relationships in general. We we had one where Matt was equally jaded about psychology. And then by the end, he's like, you know what, maybe there's something to the psychology thing. So now he's like jaded about politics. You know what, Maybe I do need to be a part of participant in my society. He goes through that. We're seeing that pattern for a few different things where we see what the newcomers think of it. And maybe George's naive, charming attitude towards something makes Matt rethink it.

19:56 So yes, I mentioned that scene later in my I just have to mention it. But just for some culture stuff that comes up. Yeah, it's it's cool. I'm going to compliment Matt's police work, which feels funny, but here we are. George is the hot head again in this episode, partly because his son and pregnant wife are almost blown up and run over. But Matt gets the lecture from the higher ups for George's behavior. So Matt ends up being the responsible one saying let's work the case George. And George is ready to flip desks because he just knows that these dirty purists are behind the whole thing.

20:30 And and Matt's like, hey, are there clues over here? So he keeps trying to steer him back. I have two quality Matt quotes here as he's being a good police officer, trying to just do his job. George says that the organization, the purest organization, needs to be shut down. This is not a secret creepy group. This is a public face public organization that's, you know, a public hate group, but in the way that's appropriate and not illegal. And he says they need to be shut down. And Matt says it's a free country, George, even for the bigots.

21:01 And the other quote he has is Matt is doing police work and he's emphasizing A suspect over an organization and getting proof. And he says I don't care if it's a purist or a tourist. Relax, we'll get whoever's responsible. I think it is pretty obvious who is responsible. We need hard evidence. What we need is to close down this organization. No, it's a. Free country, George, even for the bigots. My son was nearly killed, another man is missing and a building blown out. What more do you want? I want a person, not an organization.

21:33 You cut off the head of a snake and the dominoes will fall. Proof, George. A solid piece of evidence that connects to somebody. I don't care if it's a purist or a tourist. Fine, I know exactly where to start. So that was really quality. Yeah, yeah, I like this most too. Yeah. I have a couple more positives. In the first scene, we see Susan and this newcomer Wyatt having an interaction where newcomer pregnancy is not explained to us, but we just get to eavesdrop and wonder. So Susan uses the exclamation glean Ox in the first scene for Oh my goodness, In a way she thinks she's starting something called lapotis.

22:10 Wait, yeah, emphasis on the 1st syllable. And she sends Buck to the car for her wood chips. She has like a bag of gerbil shavings for a gerbil cage that she nibbles. Wyatt. Wyatt over here in the campaign headquarters. As Buck runs off, he offers to do some squat thrusts with her while she waits, because he's a newcomer and he knows what she's going through. He asks when her ejection date is, and it's a few weeks away. His is a month away and he's already started massaging his Ling pod flap. Yeah.

22:48 So, you know, I think the stories, when you tell stories and you bring people in in the middle without explaining everything, they just, I think the Latin is in media or in media. But yes, they are definitely doing that where we are just left to sit back and wonder what in the world all this stuff is they're talking about. But Todd and I already know vaguely at least, that the writers do have it all planned out, so they're not just throwing out randomness all the time. But yes, my last one is equally about the birth process and not the rest of the episode.

23:21 We come in, George is chatting with his family at their house as Susan is putting together her birthing case, which is what they call, I guess, her hospital bag. And the case has wood chips, little packages that I'm going to guess or tissues, a dry eraser, an electrical cord that looks like it could have been a phone charger, a reflex hammer, and it and charcoal dust. George finally reminds her to get matches, kind of looks off into space and says, you know, she always forgets the matches. Also, in this scene, it's kind of weird, but George gives Buck a soft, encouraging punch on his shoulder.

24:00 And either Buck or actor Sean 6 seems to react like he has no idea what that was about. So my interpretation is that George is picking up human affectations, like giving an encouraging punch in the shoulder, and he's doing this to his son in a positive way. And his son is like, I don't know what he's doing. He's So that's the last of my sour milk. So we can move on to the saltwater. Well, real quick, just to follow up on something you said, because I, I had a couple of those notes in my miscellaneous section for later.

24:34 But the stuff about the charcoal and the mallet, those really are relevant and they are planting seeds for the future because without, you know, going into spoilers about how those are needed or what they do, they are relevant to a future episode that's coming up in just a few weeks. And, and in fact, I'm trying to think, oh, the the Ling Pod Ling boy Ling yeah, that is also going to be relevant. So all these things are going to be relevant about either 3 episodes from now or 4 episodes of now and, and maybe a little bit of both.

25:13 So yeah, cool, it's coming up. Shows are just better when you feel like the people making them care, and we definitely get that sensation. So yes, what's your first saltwater negative? Well, it's something that you brought up to me. It's strange that George is grouchy to his wife and son when they are almost blown up. Now don't get me wrong, I can totally understand him being grouchy about it, but he's almost grouchy toward them. And that's the strange part. You think he'd be more relieved that they're OK and grouchy that it happened, but it's like he's talking.

25:50 They describe it as being pissy and he is being that way to them. People were walking in and out of the building all morning. Yeah, there's the news. I'm going to set up an. Inner bucket please. I'm trying to conduct an investigation. Are you always this pissy when you're conducting an investigation? Susan, I believe pissy is a vulgar word. Really, you're used all the time. Well, I suggest you'd not use it. Besides, what makes you think that I am being what you said? Well, you're just so cold. Oh, I am not.

26:18 Oh yes, you are. Well, I'm sorry but there is a procedure that I have to follow. Well, you could at least smile and be a little friendlier. Yes, I suppose so. So, Susan, did you notice anyone enter the building who might have been carrying a bomb? No. Did anyone seem out of place? I seemed out of place. George, this is a volunteer organization. A lot of people just started today. Get I got to get their press crew over. Here, fuck. Please. And it's like, I guess he's just taking out his frustrations because he is super angry, but because they don't know who to be angry at yet, I guess he's just taking out on them even though they are the ones he should least be taking it out on.

27:01 So I guess it's irrational, but I guess he's having an irrational moment. But still, it felt weird for George. Well, OK, so my interpretation of that scene wasn't that he was pissy at all, but that Susan and Buck were like interpreting his cop mannerisms as too serious or something. And it's kind of like if your family visits you at your service position job and you're waiting tables and they're like, is that really how you talk to customers? Shouldn't you be more bubbly or something? It's like, so George gets this attitude.

27:34 In 1990, we did not have as big of a red flag for people telling other people they should smile more, especially men and women. So it was really funny to me that Susan is essentially telling her cop husband he should smile more when he's interrogating witnesses. So he's like gritting his teeth, like, you know, did anything. Did anybody come in with something that might have been a bomb? But he's trying. I interpreted it as serious, but I don't know. I don't know. I think he got pissier because they accused him of being pissy, which he also says is a naughty word and they should all not say it.

28:10 Yeah, yeah. My first negative is that we've seen some gains in how Buck has been written, but he still seemed, I mean, he still seems like a pretty good boy in this episode, so that's good. But his impulsivity, his desperation to perform and please, and his sales attitude are all still big red flags for me. So it's no wonder that he's like been in a gang and in a pyramid scheme. Buck is ripe for being pulled into a cult. I think Susan is wise to try and get him involved in something positive like a campaign, because in this episode he's like, you know, hey, if you want my dad to do an interview with the news, he's a cop.

28:48 I can make it happen. I'm the guy you call. It's like he's a combination of fake and sales and pleasing. And so his dad is sitting there trying to work the crime scene and Buck is like, I'm going to run and get a news team. And soon as I just wait, stop, stop. He's just so excited. So yes, that was they're going to have to watch Buck because he is, he's highly susceptible to being LED astray. Hopefully he's done with that, but he's had enough misses. I want him to do well.

29:22 Yeah, In a similar fashion, I can't help but wonder exactly what he expected to do versus the car, because he basically runs in front of the car when who is at Wyatt gets kidnapped. Yeah. And it's like, what exactly are you going to do that that car doesn't seem to to care whether you're in front of it or not. And so then he as soon as he gets in front of it, he almost immediately then has to get out of the way. It's like, that was kind of pointless. So he kind of injured himself for no reason. Well, I don't think I'm a good person for thinking in a crisis.

29:52 I I think I tend to freeze up. So Buck is he knows he has to do something. He knows his friend is getting dragged away, so he kind of runs toward the car and then he's like, crap, I'm about to get hit by a car. So yes, yeah, that was. But that whole scene is weird. I think I'm going to come back to that in a minute. My next negative is that, oh, my gosh, there are other things that Susan can do to support the vote without putting her pregnant self in front and center at places where there are bomb threats.

30:22 You have options. I'm not saying give up. I'm just saying maybe stuff a bunch of envelopes at home until the pods out, so to speak. So I'm not trying to limit anybody. And George backs his wife up. He's like super supportive. You know, they exchange niceties and said, Matt is like, what are you doing here, Susan? And George is like, no, no, I you know, I wanted to be involved and stuff. But yes, I'm worried on behalf of the kid. And then what does she do? She like moves campaign and headquarters into their house and I'm like, but the last one got blown up.

30:54 Even George has like some hesitation with that. So Susan, maybe she's antsy and restless, but yes, scary. I can't help but wonder if maybe they just have a different attitude about pregnancy. They they don't seem to be as delicate. I mean, we've also seen that they are tougher and stronger than humans. And so maybe they just don't consider pregnancy to be quite as delicate as humans. Because even Matt is like, maybe you should go home. And she's like, why should I go home? You know, she's being real tough about it.

31:24 You might be right. Yeah. There. Isn't any indication that the newcomers are that they do think that way? Matt says something, but the only time George has hesitation is when the place has been bombed and then she moves it into their house. It's not like you need to rest and get your delicate self away or anything. So yeah, maybe that's a human concept. I didn't think about that. Yeah, yeah. So let me see my next saltwater. Is that George misspeaks when he quotes Genesis 27, implying the 27th chapter, That chapter is actually all about Rebecca, wife of Isaac, convincing her son Jacob to fool his father into blessing him over his brother Esau.

32:10 So he probably meant to say Genesis 127 as in chapter 1, verse 27, which is the reference that the purist brings up. Still, it's interesting to see that George has some Bible verses memorized. So he's, he's reading the Bible. It's so even if he's getting the nomenclature wrong, it's kind of interesting that he's, you know, reading and starting to to memorize some stuff. And this is purely on a personal note. It doesn't have anything to do with the episode. But if that one verse is enough for a Bible reader to infer that male and female humans embody the image of God and reflect certain spiritual qualities, then why is it also not enough when determining whether men and women can serve a church in equal capacity?

32:54 Again, that's like a a personal note. That's doesn't have anything to do with the episode, but just seem like if you want to bring up that Bible verse for one thing, you think it would prove something else too, but that that's kind of like a totally separate argument. Yeah, well, there there is a tendency toward taking things out of context that you feel like you can use. So it'd be cool to think that the writers are doing that on purpose. But yes, my next negative is I'm going to go ahead and give the twist away because the twist kind of bothered me.

33:24 But we find out that when Wyatt was kidnapped and then released and he has a press conference talking about his kidnappers who told him they beat into him that they were the purists and that, you know, then they kidnapped the other guy, Jesse, who was a human who was helping run the campaign. And if they don't back off on this whole vote thing, then just something bad will happen to Jesse and people get hurt. Well, we find out that the newcomers, that Jesse and Wyatt are actually behind these things, and that the purists, it hurts to say, are right, that it's all an elaborate publicity stunt to get them news time, get them on the air.

34:07 And it increases how much attention they get and it decreases the positive thinking toward the purest organization, not completely destroying their whole position, but it doesn't affect. So this makes sense in a procedural cop show, as you want to make the unlikely person be the one who's actually responsible. But at the risk of getting too current or political, this would not be a good episode to put on TV today because we have groups like the purist doing terrible things and then saying the other side probably staged it for publicity.

34:40 And this episode has nothing to do with the whole thing. Well this episode has nothing to do with that necessarily, but it's twist plays into the narrative that a victim telling a story probably contrived the whole thing to get media attention. It's possible this was more of a twist in 1990, but now it would have been a bigger twist if the purists had actually been behind it. So nowadays if Todd says he's beaten up in the streets by a group of people he doesn't especially like, it's going to take 5 minutes for someone to say he made-up the whole thing to sell his point of view.

35:15 That's that accusation is thrown around a lot these days and there are worse examples that I won't do, but yes. So that kind of that twist kind of bothered me. They were the only two guys involved and Jesse ends up murdered, which apparently was not part of the plan, but I didn't like the twist for that. Yeah, I I was OK with the twist itself, but I've mentioned before how sometimes I'm not super interested in the police procedures and the murder mysteries. Even though I've watched this twice and skimmed through it a few other times, I'm still not totally clear on who killed Jesse.

35:54 And I'm and I'm and I'm not that interested and I'm, I'm also a little bit confused it. I don't know, there was just all of that just didn't really affect me, good or bad. I was just like, OK, there's crap going on. I, I, I cared more about how it was affecting our characters and, you know, how it affected the alien culture and their acceptance into society. Whether somebody was getting beat up and staging something and whether somebody was actually getting, you know, killed or whatever. I, I don't know it, it didn't, it didn't sink in.

36:29 I tend to space out some when it comes to police stuff like that. We are are in a political climate now where anyone doing anything there it is spun by the opposite side. I, I am thinking one way, but I'm trying not to say it out loud that it's contrived in some way. So for example of my mother marched recently in a kind of March, which is nice and vague and will stand the test of time in 30 years. You don't know what she's looking for, but she was in a March. And it's in the media now lately that the only people actually protesting are paid to do so.

37:04 So we live in a time where there is this sort of bizarre spin that Americans don't even protest anymore unless they are paid to do so or something like that. Everything is contrived. Which is ridiculous because when you see how many people are protesting in multiple cities, not just in America, but in other countries too, because they don't like what's going on in our country either. That's hundreds if not thousands of people. Who is paying thousands of people to to March? And even if they are, the only people that can afford that are the billionaires who aren't really on the same side as the people who are marching.

37:45 So yeah, the argument just makes no sense whatsoever. Well, and we are living in a time when the people who will make an argument much like Max Clay in this episode, I don't think they care that much about the argument. So if Matt or George tries to refute them, he quotes the Bible, George quotes it back in a different way or something like that, Max Clay says. Curious believe that if we don't have complete victory over the aliens, we'll face the end of our race, our planet, in our lifetime. Sounds a teensy bit paranoid, Max.

38:17 God put humans on this earth for a purpose far greater than we know. We have evolved here spiritually, intellectually, politically, while destroying each other. An entire species also put here by your God, the strong and destined to survive. Amen. These guys are 30% stronger and 20% smarter than we are. They are uninvited guests who have no right taking from this planet. What makes you think you're not the uninvited guests? I beg your pardon? How do you know you weren't dropped off? Because I read the Bible, Mr. Francisco, and God created man in his own image, in the image of God.

38:57 He created him. Male and female, He created them. Oh yes, Genesis 27. We have this idea that you can argue with someone or offer them reason, but the truth is instead that they will find a talking point that they can repeat that they're comfortable with. And if you try and refute that talking point, they just find you to be a difficult person. You're not in on it. So they're not really interested in the details of the talking point. And attacking that doesn't make. So it doesn't make a difference with Max Clay in this episode.

39:26 If you say, have you really thought this through? He doesn't. It doesn't matter. He's just saying his talking, which was so accurate that it bothered. Yeah, I have another negative that the scene you already mentioned it where Buck Dr. dives out of the way of the car. But the whole scene was shot really weird in order to maintain the secret and twist. It's kind of like Wyatt has to tell Buck to act natural and go over there and just not look toward the bad guys and that way Buck can't see what is probably Jesse grabbing Wyatt and throwing him in the car.

40:01 So we just hear him being grabbed and thrown into a car, we assume by purists, and Buck is doing this weird facing away thing. I think they probably should have had him hide behind a tree or something that might have made more sense. But instead he's literally standing in the street like looking the other way on purpose. So they won't grab him I guess. But. It was just I don't know, they could have tried something different. Yeah, and of course, the reason he wants them to look away is because the people driving the car is, as you've already revealed, this is all staged.

40:32 So the people driving the car Buck might actually recognize as being on the side of the campaign. When you guys write your own screenplays, just do me a favor. Never have a conspiracy with three or less people. You need to have five. You need to have a couple of randos. You need to have people who aren't as easily recognized. See also The Net starring Sandra Bullock. If you have an elaborate conspiracy, but it's like 2 dudes, you know, and then one of them gets hit by a car or something and then you're like, OK, well it's not really a conspiracy anymore if it's like one guy.

41:06 But yes, just add that. Add that to your screen. Do you have any more negatives? Yeah, I've got a couple. In fact, I've got one that isn't even my nose because I've got it plain in the background. And it just got to another scene where I think this is when they're they're finding out that Wyatt is behind this and George is confronting him. And again, it's the type of thing where I don't think they're giving him a whole lot to do. Like he's only got a line or two. And so George kind of shakes his finger in Wyatt's face, and I'm like, that looks a little bit awkward.

41:41 We've seen George, you know, be more expressive when we've seen Eric Pierpoint give such a great performance. And it just seemed I, I guess it didn't register the first time, which is why I don't have it in my notes. But looking at it again, the finger just looks weird. It looks kind of weak. It's like it's all he can do at that point, you know, if this is the real George from previous episodes, George would have been like grabbed him by the collar or something. But apparently he wasn't directed to do that and it probably wasn't in the script.

42:14 And so just wagging his finger is all we get. And it just seems weak in comparison to what George is is usually like. I didn't notice it but you sound exactly like me hyper focusing on something so I appreciate that. If I can complain about sides of the hall, yes the gesture and how it plays. This show does have a lot of people being grabbed by the lapels of their their suit jacket. So yes, trying different stuff. But you may be right. My last negative is really normally I would do a section Yikes Sykes where we talk about how much Matt almost shoots an innocent person or perhaps indulge in highlighting some of his just questionable life choices or just if he's a terrible person.

42:56 But in this episode, like I said, Matt is mostly the good cop. He's been brought in and and chewed out by the higher ups. So it's hard for me to be against him in this one because when he's pulled into the homeowners association meeting, I have this powerful aversion to Robert's Rules of Parliamentary meeting structure. For those of you that don't know, Robert is the last name of a military man who realized in the 1800's, the 19th century, that you would get together with these communities and it would just turn into these devolved shouting matches and nothing would get decided.

43:32 So he invented rules of parliamentary procedure to use in your little meetings. And it's been adopted by everybody. Like it's all over the place. It's in school council meetings and PTA and in the church meetings that I'm a part of it, my little Methodist Church. We'll, we'll do our little points of order and quorum. And you know, if, if Todd and I think that we need to raise money for something, we can't just say that and they say sounds good because that's not official. We need to make sure we agreed on it, which makes sense.

44:02 So someone will say I'm motion for it to happen and then we need someone to 2nd that officially. I've always hated the rules. Maybe it's because I was young and I didn't understand and I didn't have the experience of sitting in hours of meetings where nothing was decided. But we have this scene where Matt is sitting at this table. He's been forced into it. They've made him president of the homeowners association, which is a small special hell. And he's so disinterested. He's trying not to be a total jerk.

44:33 But there is one guy who keeps saying point of order, blah, blah, blah, point of order. If we send a letter, it has to be on the president's letterhead. And I think maybe it's not Robert's Rules fault. Maybe I I've been manipulated by watching too many TV shows where in this style of meeting, The only reason a TV show uses point of order and seconding motions is scripted to identify somebody who's pedantic and irritating as a character. And that is how the first scene plays. Right on time. Tenants meeting.

45:10 OK, so Mike's gonna draw up the letter on his law firm stationary bitching at the garbage man to replace the cans on the curb. Oh, we'll suit him. You. Want me to copy on that? No order, Mr. Hopper. My laws state that all letters concerning the status and maintenance of this building come from the President's desk. They will not discern. I think that my husband's law firm letterhead just might be a little more effective. Order. What? She was out of order. Suck on your pie, popper. If we're not going to follow the bylaws, why do we bother to have them?

45:45 Good point. All in favor of dropping the bylaws say aye. Point of order. What? There's no motion on the floor. How do you like to be on the floor? Matt. So Robert's Rules may be a wonderful thing in real life, and I've just been tainted by how I've seen it depicted on TV. And in the first episode, the first meeting, you do, you like immediately hate the guy who loves the rules. So you can see where I've gotten my attitude from, but I'm largely on Matt's side in this. I'm like, ready to throw the gavel and storm out, which he eventually does.

46:16 And I guess the nicest rude way possible.

46:21 Well, and so it's funny you bring all that up because that's related to my next bullet point, which is the the point of order guy in the tennis meeting is a bit cartoonish. And now the thing about it, it might be more than just a bit cartoonish because not only is he the type of guy to constantly bring up the point of order, but don't they give him like a pipe to smoke? Only he's not actually smoking it. And so it's just something to put in his mouth to make him seem, you know, kind of hoity toity.

46:48 And is I, I don't know, that was that was just kind of over the top and kind of kind of fake. So yeah, I wasn't thrilled about that. Well, and I think we've seen Kathy before, very excited and trying to aggressively encounter human culture and make these connections, sometimes with mixed success. So I think this is an example of that. Matt as a human has no interest in his neighbors or forming those connections. He is a classic New York attitude guy and I think he has, I think his cap was the Yankees or the Mets, but he where he doesn't want to know his neighbors and he gives them the respect of assuming they don't want to know him.

47:28 And Kathy, I think Kathy reaching out to her neighbors and being excited about the the homeowners association is like Nick being excited to go to parties and hang out with people because it's something that I felt was lacking before or something. So I rushed toward it and you're like, you know, Nick, you don't have to say yes to everything. So Kathy, she could probably stand to pump her brakes a little bit, but she's stoked to form these positive interactions. And yeah, Matt is just like, who would voluntarily spend time around these people?

47:59 So was that all of your? Salt water. OK, so I've got one more and that is that for the Ava movement bombing their own headquarters for the sake of publicity, they sure did not take safety enough into account. Because I think if I remember correctly, they get some kind of phone call that is like a threat of a bomb. And that's why they do exit the building. And our main and guest characters are across the street. But there are a lot of extras who are still standing pretty close to the building, and there is a lot of glass and shrapnel.

48:32 So, you know, I know they did this just as a stunt, and they did call it in to try to get people out, but that is not enough. There are still too many people staying too close to the building. And they got lucky that nobody was killed in this bomb. So, yeah, they could have done a little bit better, faking the bomb, making it less drastic, making sure people were further away, something. So this was not planned very well. So well. And the Jesse character is a black man, and I don't think it's a coincidence that they named him Jesse.

49:06 And I think there's some subtext about, I know that Wyatt essentially tells us that the whole scam was Jesse's idea, and that one of the reasons he tells Buck in a separate scene that the reason Jesse came and helped them start this campaign was because he felt like it was an uphill battle and he wanted to get in there and do a big thing. So I paint this image of a sort of out of town guy who has done disruptive protest campaigns and embattled areas before and he he imagines it being a much more violent thing than the newcomers would have ever come up with on their own.

49:47 So yes, the whole idea of it spiraling out of control and Jesse not being the most responsible person might play into that, but it is all subtext. They don't say a lot of that over. So we're ready to move on to connecting the spots. Yep. I don't. I mean, there are obvious real world correlations that I won't go into. Many campaign offices have been bombed and we didn't, I didn't realize until this episode that they didn't have the right to vote. But I guess it makes sense. So we have a whole suffrage movement.

50:18 And those of you who haven't looked up suffrage in a while now, you know what it means. But we also see at the end of the episode, you know, that it passes in California, but there are states that don't go for it and it passes in Georgia but not Alabama. I looked at the map to see if it had a kind of red, blue slant and it really doesn't. I think the colors they picked are red and green and they, I think they went out of their way to try and mix it up. So it wasn't really divided against along our established political lines.

50:50 But there are very obvious correlations that I don't know any historical dates for. But most of my connections are casting so do you have any spots to connect? Yes. But to follow up on what you're saying, I think it's interesting that, you know, I know that they do have to ratify this at the national level, but it would be more interesting if they had delved into that more to see, you know, what states are going for it or against it and why, considering the fact that I think the newcomers are still concentrated in California.

51:26 So there would probably be a lot of states who are like, well, this doesn't affect us, so who cares? So that might be why they're automatically voting against it. But then there might be states that are like, well, even if it doesn't affect our state, it's still a part of the nation and we still support people, you know, who are here, regardless of how they got here, having the right to vote. And so we're going to vote for it for it. That would have been more interesting, you know, almost make like the alien nation version of a West Wing episode.

51:57 But instead we get but instead we get cop episode with, you know, people staging stuff. And it's like, that's why I didn't care about it. So yeah, I would have preferred that they had dug a little deeper in the political aspect. Was your reading of it that it didn't? That some states now would give them the right to vote and some don't? Or that they have to keep campaigning until they get all of them, or most of them, on board. Well, so I actually have something in my miscellaneous about that. So I think in order to ratify something, you've got to have 3/4 of the state vote for something.

52:35 And this is future in 1995. And it's implied that Puerto Rico might be a state in this imaginary future. And so in order to ratify something now, like an actual amendment, it would take 38 states. But if you add in Puerto Rico, it's going to be at least 39 states. And either way they get 32. So it's not enough. But I guess what I was implying was I would, it would be nice to know, you know, now and why certain states were voting the way they did because there is like that newscaster who says these states voted for it, But it sounds kind of random.

53:14 And like you said, there doesn't seem to be any kind of pattern to the, the map. And so I I just wish we got more on why, like who voted for it or against it and why and why were they that close but not quite all the way there? So I think you make a lot of sense because the number of states that approved it being that close to 3536, but not quite, is a little too can like coincidental for it to just be random. I had thought that the scene meant that it had passed in California and they could vote in California.

53:53 But Buck was disappointed because there were states that were still not on board and they were telling him not to lose heart and the rest of the country would get on board eventually. But I think you make a lot of sense that probably what's happened is they did a good job and a lot of people support them, but they're not quite ready to give the newcomers the vote yet, which is a very different ending than what I thought it was. So yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, And maybe I would need to watch it again because I'm not sure.

54:20 Maybe they got the right to vote for state and local stuff in California and what they were hoping for and what the other states were voting on was for national level stuff like senators, House representatives, president, that type of thing. I'm not sure I. Mean that's not you. They didn't tell us. They were very vague on it. Like you said, they focused on other stuff. So my first connecting the spots is that Mark Thomas Miller is the actor who plays this newcomer Wyatt Earp, who who is a nice campaign manager, smiley guy, helping with Susan's pregnancy suggestions.

54:58 And and it turns out he's actually behind this whole conspiracy and let himself be kidnapped and beat up. And we don't trust him very much because there's a publicity stunt. He's accused of murdering Jesse. And then the end goes kind of weird, and we'll talk about that. But that character, that actor, I have trouble spotting people under the makeup, but Mark Thomas Miller, this is OK. Well, in 1985, they made a crazy, cool, weird show called Misfits of Science. And there are a few people who worked on it, I think, that are in this episode.

55:31 But Misfits of Science has Courtney Cox before she did anything else, even Fern Gulley. She's very young and a few other teens and they have sort of superpowers. One can make himself big and small. There's a few different things. Most of their powers are goofy, but there is one guy who he is the coolest misfit of science and that is Mark Thomas Miller, Wyatt Earp. He he plays Johnny B. The rest of them have weird powers. He had the power of a leather jacket, a motorcycle and shooting lightning blasts out of his fists.

56:04 Also 20247 sunglasses. So this the actor Mark Thomas Miller was in a disfiguring accident a year after this episode which hurt his acting career. But his bio is crazy and I'll let y'all read that for yourselves if you're interested. He does some interesting stuff. He's had a weird journey. Highlights include him actually writing for SNL and Mad TV at one point and being a bodyguard for Van Halen. He is currently a Carpenter and owns a few businesses in the West Coast and I think in Vegas like Tchotchke Shop.

56:35 So, crazy character, but the cool misfit of science. You have somebody you want to bring up or spot. Yes, but I'll just say that's an interesting background on him. And also I would count that as another posit in that he did do a have a great performance in this episode. There are a few scenes where he has to be pretty intense and it comes off well. He he does well despite the makeup and he took the role seriously. Yeah. So I am going to bring up Mark Joy, who played the purest Max Clay and he also played President Benjamin Hughes in the 2009 low budget sci-fi movie Iborgs.

57:17 And that's spelled EYE Borgs, which was filmed in downtown Winston Salem, NC and produced, directed and Co written by Richard Clay Ball, who was at the time a professor of the North Carolina School of the Arts, which is also in Winston Salem, about 15 minutes drive from me. Around the same time of it filming I was a Co producer on a team entered in the annual 24 hour film project which has a location in nearby Greensboro. And this was during a year that the director of our team was a production assistant on Iborgs.

57:59 So I and the other Co producer for our 48 hour film team got to visit the set one night. We got to briefly meet the star Adrian Paul from highlight of the series fame, which was cool because this was a few years before I started going to Dragon Con where he was a guest. One of my first three years of going, I don't remember which year. And it was a good night to go because we got to watch them blow up a van and set a stuntman on fire. And despite how cool it was to witness the fire scene in person, I've still never gotten around to watching this movie.

58:37 I I think it I think it is out there on streaming somewhere. And I'm like, you know, it would be good if I were to actually finally watch that movie. And yes, it's probably low budget and I don't know if it's really good, really bad. I don't know. But I should watch it even if I just skim through it to finally get to the fire scene and say, hey, I was there. But because of that, I really don't know how big or small Mark Joy's role was. But I just thought I'd bring it up because it even though I still have not gotten around to see this movie, I feel like I still should.

59:08 But it's still cool to me that if I were to watch it, and if anybody else does watch it and you get to the fire scene, just know that I'm off camera about 50 feet away. That is cool as hell, Todd. That is so cool, This. Yeah, you've got me very interested. So I can tell our listeners, at the moment iborgs is not available for free on YouTube and it doesn't seem to be streaming anywhere. Dang it. The world can change. But somebody is sitting with that on a shelf somewhere and I resent it because I really would like to.

59:44 There are some cool trailers and stuff that I will have to check out it. So that's awesome. As President, there is nothing more important than protecting the people. That is why I supported the Freedom of Observation Act. Every camera in the nation as well as millions of mobile units have been linked directly into Odie. A single all seeing network. A network that never sleeps, never rests and never stops looking out for you. Shame what happened to your family. If it wasn't for what happened to them, we wouldn't have iborgs.

1:00:20 To scrape out scum like you. They're just security. What if it's not just against? What if somebody puts a weapon? Weapons on the Iborgs

1:00:43 binary bastard. I'm going to walk in there and try to convince the president that security cameras are killing people. I need some real proof. I'll get you the proof. Get out. Get out. Terrorists have control of the eyeballs. Are you the president and anyone connected to the series major? For the president's guards.

1:01:10 We're not watching you, We're protected.

1:01:15 Mark Joy has a very interesting repertoire of movies and shows that he's been in. He's been in some legit movies, I think Shawshank Redemption and a few others. But the one that I will mention is Dogma, because in a scene in Dogma there is bored. That's, I think very thinly veiled attack on Disney as possibly lifting up an idol for people to worship instead of God. If you have no idea what I'm talking about with Dogma, you're in for a treat, a vulgar, vulgar treat. But their idol that they lift up is movie The golden calf instead of a mouse.

1:01:52 And Mark Joy plays a very seriously looking businessman, I think in charge of the whole meeting because he's really good at that character. He he's kind of just be good at being a good looking, clean cut, morally bankrupt white guy. So he must be really, really nice and real person. But that was, that's a big claim to fame for him, for me. Harvey, Jason, a lot of you may not know, he's a weird looking dude. He looks like an Indiana Jones villain, but he was, I think, the gentleman you were referring to with the pipe and little goatee.

1:02:28 I think he's listed as Mr. Hopper. There's also a Mike Wilmington, but I'm not sure. I'm going to guess Mr. Hopper was the one who kept saying point of order and had the pipe and the little beard. But Harvey Jason is the thing I know him most from is a first season episode of Star Trek The Next Generation, the big goodbye, which won an Emmy because it dared to think what would happen if a artificial intelligence hologram type person had self consciousness and was like, hey, what's going to happen when you turn this program off?

1:03:00 Am I going to die or something? It like won an award and now it's really outdated and cliched because we've copied it a million times. But he was in that as a stooge for a mobster. So I really like seeing this guy. I was like, oh, I know him. I think, I can't remember. I think it was the dude with the beard. Yeah, I'm not sure if I recognize anybody else in the episode. And I didn't really look anybody up. I knew I'd be babbling on about this one guy, Mark Joyce. I really didn't pay that much attention to anybody.

1:03:30 Else, no, there aren't that many more. There's Jesse Parker, our other campaign manager, who got himself kidnapped is in an episode of Voyager, Star Trek Voyager, as something called a new Miri captain in the first season, And Mark Taylor, who plays a character named Mike Wilmington. I'm going to guess this is the other random person sitting at the table for the homeowners association. But he's in Star Trek Voyager. He's in three David E Kelly shows. We mentioned how David E Kelly seemed to steal from Alien Nation and this host of actors for all of his shows.

1:04:09 So Mark Taylor's an example of that. But this guy was also in Darkwing Duck and Batman the Animated Series, which I would talk about all the time if any of these character actors were on those shows, but they're not, so I don't bring it up. And he was also in a very good episode of Star Trek The Next Generation Season 3 when we're Data is kind of alone in a colony and he has to take charge called the instance of command so. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, this is Mike Wilmington, that character with Mark Taylor.

1:04:41 A lot of these people. I looked and there's nothing that jumped out at me. For our listeners, I tend to focus on anything they did that was fantastical or robots, lasers, fantasy. Iborgs is exactly what I would look for.

1:04:59 That is awesome. But if they are so if you have an actor who's in a bunch of serious stuff, I may not mention it doesn't mean it's not valuable, but there are a couple of bit actors in this. One is an officer Martin Valinsky, and I think he plays an extra in a few episodes. He's just good at playing a background cop or soldier, and he's in The Next Generation pilot and Bob Harks. I think this is Bob's second Alien Nation episode where he plays a detective in the background of the police station.

1:05:27 And he's been an extra in Next Generation and Deep Space 9. And that is it for me for connecting the spots. Although I can go ahead and tell you, listeners are going to have a very brief conversation about the Albert Einstein Award. Yeah, we only had one contestant this week, and it was Wyatt Earp. So Wyatt Earp, you win by default. Good job man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to say the same thing. I he was the only eligible 1 but I do have one other connecting spots and that's it. Dobbs. Watch Dobbs.

1:06:00 Watch. Sadly, there is no Dobbs this week, but there is one brief speaking scene with Burns the reporter. Then later he's in a non speaking scene among a gaggle of reporters. There's no Emily nor Jill this week. They're missing. Also, according to IMDb, this is the third of six consecutive episodes with without Albert. And sadly, this might be the end of Dobbs Watch and it. Yeah, at least in its current form. Maybe we can keep the name for just talking about, you know, like side characters or, or recurring characters or whatever.

1:06:48 Yeah. Because starting next week, the the actor that plays Dobbs +2 actor, other actors are no longer in the opening credits. Yeah. Yeah. And one of those, the guy that plays Burns. But here's the weird thing. Burns is in at least one more episode and I happen to know from skimming ahead that the episode he's in, he actually has a main plot dedicated to him. So he's not just in for like one or two scenes. He's he's got like the A plot or at least B plot of that episode, which is weird because he's listed as a guest star in that episode instead of, you know, being a main of opening credits person.

1:07:34 So he's got at least one more. But I don't think we're going to see two other people, including Dobbs. So maybe I'll keep the name Dobbs. Watch for when Burns comes around. Also next week. We do get Moodry one more time. So yeah, maybe I'll keep the the name of the segment for for those people, but sadly, no more Dobbs. He's out. Oh, Lawrence Hilton Jacobs, we love you, man. Wherever you are, you did good. You brought your A game. So yeah, end of an era. Dobbs watch. OK, well, we will move on to I have to talk about this where we cover anything we didn't get to say up until now that was just zany or interesting.

1:08:16 You may want to go. Well, I can tell you one throwaway thing is just that when they are investigating the bomb scene, George asks Matt if he smelled the plastique and Matt says, yeah, you don't even need space glands for that. Which was really interesting to me because like I said, we cannot smell things we see on TV. And I think in my life, this is the first time that cops have let me know that you can smell when someone has used plastique in a bomb. So interesting. That's educational for me. Yeah.

1:08:47 Yeah. Let me see. My first one is I found it interesting that George Francisco does not show up until 6 minutes and 47 seconds into the episode. You know, he he's a major player and yet all this other stuff is going on. I think in that first 6 minutes we see his family. Yeah, I think, I think Susan and Bunker in the very first scene. And then we get a little bit of map. But yeah, George doesn't come around till later, so I thought that was a little weird. When they are talking outside of the bombed campaign headquarters and George is backing up his wife that she doesn't have to go into hiding or something just because she's pregnant, he says to take care and take Deniz and they exchange the hand on temple gestures that are just kind of like a familial I care about you thing.

1:09:33 Be careful. Sounds like Kyordodolf Kyordodorov. Well, sort of like disorder. Draw, cure. Draw what?

1:09:46 Buck and I and the pod volunteered. We can't back out because of this. Sure you can of. Course not. I'm regretting now that I did not write down more of our tank Deniz expressions. Cure Draw, because now I want to know what all the language is. I did not list it in Sour Milk because I don't like the scene where they interrogate the purest leader, Max Clay. It's written well, which means it's exactly as fun as talking to any determined rhetoric spewing bigot. But I do like when they are talking about Max Clay suggests that, you know, they belong there, that the humans are given the earth by God, but that the newcomers are unwanted guests, essentially.

1:10:35 And George asks how he doesn't know that humans weren't also dropped off from somewhere else. And my brain was just like, so the purist is, of course, completely unshaken because he's like one of those people. But Nick was like, never occurred to me. It's a Dang good question, George. I was. I was blown away. That is a good point because if it happened, it happened so long ago, we we wouldn't know it. So yeah. Yeah, that, that is interesting. So the only two points I have left, 1 is pretty simple and straightforward.

1:11:14 We've already kind of talked about a little bit, and that is that sadly, some of Matt's political cynicism hits kind of close to home considering our current state of affairs. And in fact, sometimes I kind of share that bit of cynicism. And so it that was, you know, relatable. And then the last thing is I have some minor mixed feelings about one particular scene. And it's when George and Susan are on the phone with each other and it's revealed is or it is not revealed until the phone call ends that the makeshift campaign headquarters is in their house.

1:11:48 And I think I missed it the first time around. But she does tell him that that's going to happen. But I I think we're not supposed to know that it's already happening until she gets off the phone and we see that it's a bigger operation than she tells him it's going to be. She make kind of makes it sound to him like they're going to be two or three people, like dealing with envelopes when it's really like they're moving in phones and stuff like that. And they're, you know, probably eight or nine people in there.

1:12:14 And it's a cool visual reveal. At the same time, I have a slight nitpick about it in that it's a bit of a trope that we don't hear any of that sound going on in the background until she's actually off the phone. And it's like, if we had been hearing that the whole time, then it wouldn't have been a big surprise. And so yes, I like the fact that it's a surprise, even though there's a part of a brain that says it shouldn't be. Detective Francisco. Hi Susan, how are you? Pretty good. Everything's back to normal.

1:12:44 Box out canvassing with a youth group and I'm setting up here. Setting up. Well, we needed an office since we don't have the headquarters anymore. We're the headquarters. You don't mind do. You considering what happened to the last headquarters? George, we are not going to blow up. Susan, we are dealing with fanatics.

1:13:03 I wish we wouldn't take this so lightly. The Purest are a very dangerous organization. We'll be careful we. Have enough room at. The house, we're just talking about a table in the corner of the kitchen. You know, some some envelopes, some stamps. Yes, all right. I think that's fine. I thought it would be a much bigger operation, but do keep an eye open for any unattended baggage. We'll be fine, honey. You won't even know we're here. Look, Nemo, I've got to go answer the other line. Bye. Goodbye, last one point.

1:13:36 Me too ABA. One of the other lines. George is on her side, and he thinks Matt's overreacting, but he is kind of concerned and he's sort of like, you know, be careful. And she's like, George, it's just the kitchen table. It's just the, you know, And when we back up, I went, I went back, I rewound and counted. And I believe I counted at least seven people running around their kitchen. So yes, it seemed like an elaborate operation. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. So you pointed out previously that Susan calls George Nemu sometimes as a pet name.

1:14:10 And now I notice it every time because you pointed out so like when they were on the phone in this episode, the scene you're talking about. And then to continue my thing about their language, He says I love you when he hangs up, which sounds in tank Denise, like no spawn boat. So for those of you at home, no spawn boat with a with a click at the beginning, no spawn boat is how you say I love you in tank Denise of Buck is treated very rudely while out canvassing the neighborhood. And Wyatt Earp consoles him and says, come on, we'll round up the troops and pick up some lard tips.

1:14:46 The the car that they're looking for that Wyatt was thrown into is identified as a blue Razor. And this is our second made-up car for the series. And I do know it's a sedan. They do say it's a sedan, but a blue Razor, which is interesting. This is before Razor phones were invented, everybody. But yes, the car came first, the fictional car. Do you have another one? Well, now I was just going to say the blue razor, I think it looks kind of like a Ford Taurus or something like that with just a spoiler put on the back.

1:15:21 And, and I think they've done that before because a lot of times we'll see a an establishing shot outside of Matt's apartment and there's a car out there. I don't know if it's his or somebody else's, but it looks like a normal car that would have existed around that time with just a big spoiler on it. So I think that's the way that, yeah, I think that's the way that they're implying this near future is they just take cars that exist already and then just attach stuff to them. Future 95 when you're in 1990 is all about spoilers.

1:15:52 Spoilers. That's awesome. Yeah, that's cool. So Matt answers a radio call at his car, and apparently he is car 52, he and George, because this matches the call they do in the Night of Screams episode 7. He's called back to the station with a code 3, which also matches that previous episode and that it means lights and siren, an emergency, except in this episode, the emergency is that the boys upstairs are going to chew him out off screen because George has been harassing purists. So I really like that they have police continuity and that now I I can deduce from the way they talk on the radio that he and George are car 52.

1:16:35 Apparently we see, oh, I was very curious. This wasn't in my salt water but I was really curious who dropped Wyatt Earp right outside the police station because he's he's unconscious, beaten on the ground, barely breathing. He's literally been spray painted on black and blue and I'm guessing paramedics didn't throw him in the gutter outside the police station. Uh, possibly a do gooder but a criminal? Like would a criminal have the guts to do it? Did Earp crawl there? It's pretty gutsy to, like, leave him at the police station with or without a ski mask.

1:17:13 That would be a pretty bold move for someone who didn't want to be seen. So, like, how did you get here, buddy? At his press conference, Wyatt Earp says, I pray to my God that this does not happen. And I'm not sure if he's referring to Endarko and Celine or someone we haven't heard of yet because previously they really weren't depicted as gods. But I did think that that was interesting. Yeah, I wondered about that too, because yeah, I wondered if he was implying one of them or, you know, he could be from Mudri's religion or there could be 1/3 religion that we don't know about where there is a God.

1:17:50 Or it could be that he knew that his audience was going to be mostly human and that he, you know, regardless of whether they actually have a God or multiple gods. Or, you know, if and Arkham and Celine are not gods but just revered to people. It could be that he was just using the nomenclature that humans would understand the most. Yeah, yeah. And I had forgotten. You're right. Moodri worshipped a kind of earth spirit deity Gaia thing, I think. So that's. Yeah. But it does make sense, too, even for the newcomers listening, that he would be appealing to the human audience.

1:18:25 So, yeah, that's a way to phrase it. Oh, OK. So they get a lead on the blue Razor sedan, and it's followed by a cop car to the a black motel where our heroes, they head out there. And while George is going into the rental, finding Jesse Parker's bloody body, Matt chases down Wyatt Earp on foot. Newcomers are stronger, smarter and have more powerful senses, but apparently they are crap runners. He also doesn't use his superior strength on Matt, which is a very good thing because we've seen in a previous episode you can punch a human so hard that their face turns into mist.

1:19:04 So yes, this scene, this scene played very strange for me where Matt goes after him, but I'm like, oh, you're never going to catch. Oh, he caught it. Oh, you're never going to. Oh, he forced him to the ground. Oh, OK, cool. I would say he was going along with it on purpose, but this is not part of the plan. He's about to be possibly framed for murder, so maybe he's just in shock. I don't know. But lucky Matt. The guy's not good at running. Well, he wasn't beat up. You know what, now that I'm thinking about it, Jesse probably, like, whacked him on the legs a whole bunch of times or something.

1:19:35 He might have a broken rib. So yes, yes, totally makes sense. Yeah, so you talk about the the speed at which humans and tanked and knees can run. It kind of reminds me of the way J Michael Straczynski has explained the speed of starships in Babylon 5. He's always said that they move at the speed of plot, so they move as fast or as slow as you need them to be to tell the story. That's great. The man is clever of when they tricked Jack Mahoney, who is a random purist dirtbag, into incriminating himself about planting bugs.

1:20:12 George responds to his racist rhetoric by employing A2 finger below the jaw move that seems to be painful and possibly dangerous. And Matt kind of gestures at him to stop. So I haven't seen this before, but he just like sticks his two fingers under the guy's jaw and the guy's like. So yes, that was interesting. On voting night, you've already kind of talked about the results, but George hands Susan a clear bowl and says these are the last of the wood chips. And Susan responds it'll be fine. I think the mucus is subsiding.

1:20:50 We had, we had a reference to mucus previously why she was eating wood chips. You don't want to come on mom, eat your wood chips. You don't want to get that mucus going. So after Buck is disappointed in only 32 states wanting to give newcomers the right to vote, Susan suggests he work off his frustration by cutting up more wood chips outside. He says he doesn't want to work off the frustration, and he offers her a newspaper, which she starts to tear into strips and eat. And she says not bad. And that is it for me for connecting this.

1:21:23 Oh, I have to talk about this. Yeah. Yeah, and I guess it's weird that she would eat paper, but there again, that is, you know, in the same family as wood chips. But at the same time, I would imagine that not tasting good considering the ink that is in newspapers. But maybe. Well, I mean, I don't know what they put in the bottom of gerbil cages. Like, that's what wood chips and newspaper have in common. So she tries it. And, I mean, he didn't. He couldn't have pulled it out of the blue. Like, they must have read this before.

1:21:56 Something's like, you want to try a newspaper? And she tries. She's like, you know what? All right, this is not bad. So yeah, maybe not as good as the wood chips. So we're ready to move on to score. Yep. All right. Well, I always give an STA score for the number of Star Trek alumni in an episode And every episode has a base score of three because Matt, George and Susan are in all of them. As Todd mentioned, Burns returns for a very interesting moment. At least he's George needs to stop talking to the press and and harassing people.

1:22:29 And here Burns is taking a statement from him and interviewing him or Matt literally takes his book and throws it away. So I'm happy Burns is back because he has some Star Wars credentials as well. So that brings me up 4 And then as I mentioned, we've got Jesse Parker and four background characters with Star Trek pasts. So this gives me ASTA score of nine, which might be the highest we've ever had I think. That's I think so. They're almost all bit characters, you know, that one guy at the maybe both guys at the homeowners association.

1:23:01 But yes, I will take it. I also rate episodes on a watch skip basis and I'm fine with you guys skipping this episode. Yeah, I know, I know. It's always a surprise when I go there. I'm a completionist. I have to watch everything, even if I'm not enjoying it. We've talked about some of those shows, but so I'm I have to see them all. But if you guys are kind of moonlighting in the series and you'd rather listen to Todd and me talk about them than actually watch them, Yeah. Yeah. I think you could probably let this episode go.

1:23:33 As I've said, I think my favorite parts in this one are really just the little snippets you get of culture and newcomer pregnancy and how adorable the family is. And Kathy, I always love everything Kathy does. So yeah, other than that, I think you could let it go. I think it's value is. Well, we've mentioned before that the show encounters a lot of issues with race and prejudice. So if you want to see Matt and George engage with the legal arm of a hate group as a metaphor for those that we have in our country, you will enjoy it.

1:24:05 And a lot of people like that kind of drama more than I do. So that may be your bag, but just try not to think about current events too much. When you do. What do you think? What? Yeah. Because if I were to grade on a watch it or skip it basis, that really would be the determining factor. How much do you really care about the political aspect? Because to me, it is an important thing to explore the fact that the Tingtonese do not have the right to vote and that there is this political moment where they get close, but they don't quite get there.

1:24:38 And so if that's important to you, then yeah, you might need to watch the episode for that. On the other hand, there's not, as I already said, they don't get that deep into it and they don't really explain it. And this is far from like a West Wing type episode for the alien nation. And so since they don't totally go there, it's it's very surface level, then you probably could skip it and just have, you know, one of us explain it to you in just one or two sentences and then you probably get the gist of the political aspect.

1:25:11 But I do grade on a letter grade, taking various things into account. And as I've already kind of mentioned, this is kind of a middle of the road episode. Nothing stellar, but nothing terrible either. And so it works out to AB minus. OK, yeah, yeah, mixed reviews. We love all of these, but yes, that's not one of the best. So coming up next time on alienating ourselves, Nick and Todd explorer episode 14 generation to generation, the IMDb summary says I can't paraphrase it because I haven't seen it yet.

1:25:50 Several parties claim ownership of a mysterious tanktonese box that leaves a trail of death in its wake. That's not a lot to go on, but we've seen how spellbound the Tanktonese were with Matt's box. Oh, memories from his uncle. So I can see them really wanting to know what's inside this one. And I'm guessing it's something radioactive because that's just me trying to guess how a box could leave a trail of death in its wake. So join us next week on Alienating Ourselves as Todd and I find out what's in the box.

1:26:20 I continue to be Nick. And I'm Todd, thank you for joining us. We'd love to see some reviews wherever you listen to podcasts. If you love us, like us, or can barely tolerate us, please give us five stars. If you really hate us, please give us four stars. If you give us three stars or lower, you too will be voted president of your tenants or homeowners association. And if you have to be an officer, isn't secretary really the way to go? You can just take notes and use that as your your excuse for being quiet.

1:26:50 As always, may all your milk be as fresh or as sour as you prefer it to be. At the time we're recording. It's not relevant for a few more months, but always remember to exercise your privilege to vote. And just my personal opinion, but you get bonus points for voting for logic, common sense, compassion and decency. Have a great week. Good night everybody.