#020 - Alien Nation 1.14 "Generation to Generation"
Uncle Moodri is back, Matt becomes a big brother, and we explore the "Heart of Tencton" in this week's review of "Alien Nation" episode "Generation to Generation."
- How good is it to have Uncle Moodri back?
- What do the co-hosts think of the name Vessna for the upcoming Francisco baby?
- How strange is it to see the depiction of an auction where the main items for sale are related to forms of slavery?
- What do the co-hosts think about Matt becoming a big brother and the kid he mentors? Why is the kid so nice & thankful? Are there suspicions that there's something wrong with grandma (the kid's guardian)?
- The kid mentions wanting to go camping with Matt. What creative (and derogatory) name does one co-host have for camping.?
- Which co-host was pleasantly surprised & relieved that the kid wasn't a psychopath?
- What did the co-hosts think about the Tenctonese culture this week, including a certain kind of memorial service?
- What did the co-hosts have to say this week about plot points, pacing, and structure?
- Which co-host was surprised to find out he's had the "Alien Nation" DVD box sets this whole time and feels stupid for not being able to find his DVD player remote control?
- Speaking of boxes, what did the co-hosts think about "The Box," also known as the Heart of Tencton, in this week's episode?
- Which of Matt's traits were featured in this week's "Yikes, Sikes!" segment?
- And, what did Todd come up with from the "Unofficial Companion" book and for the "Wheel of Press Kit" segment?
Listen now for the answers to these and other out-of-the-box questions, as we look back at..."Generation to Generation."
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Royalty-free music in this episode comes from Pixabay.com (plus one from the now defunct FreePD.com).
Humans and aliens working together. I really want to dig more into their culture. It's a mirror up to. Humanity. Social commentary through allegorical storytelling. Wild, angry old man opinions. I hate that thing. Why don't we call it something pretty like we'll? I remember when Uncle Muji told me bedtime stories of tank time. I. Remember when Uncle Muji came? To the sea. And. He gave me hope. Why does Daddy have to leave? Be out of the house 'cause grandma smells weird because I have my own terminology for camping, I call it simulated homelessness.
I told you it was dangerous. He has sleep indoors because we pay for. This Gee whiz, I'm sorry the dry cleaner couldn't get that wine stain out of your shirt. Maybe we can start over. Get it right this time, Todd. Oh my gosh, I see crap positive. But I'm dumb. This is old nose quail. 'Cause I'm an idiot. We already knew that. Really. I'm a dumb ass. I've. Been telling you that for years. Holy crap, Todd listeners, he is not so stupid that he tears down again, Fires, fire, fire, fire. What's in the box?
George Francesco is one of my all time favorite. Characters. This show is going to go to places that I really enjoy. Sour milk is a good thing to the tanked knees. Stay tuned. Listeners. Of press kit. Yikes, Yikes. Both things of Star Trek. Watching Alien Nation and we enjoy. It I am one of your hosts, Todd this. Is Nick. This is the Alienating Ourselves podcast. Greetings, humans and newcomers, and welcome back to Alienating Ourselves, the podcast where we examine sci-fi entertainment with a focus on aliens and the humans that try to exploit the hearts of their planet.
I am one of your hosts, Todd. I've never been a Big Brother and not sure I would be a good one, but even I would have enough sense to take a kid somewhere more interesting and cleaner than a hardware store. And joining me, as always, is a guy who may or may not have instructed his own son on the differences between the many types of nails. It's Nick. Nick, how's it going? It's going really well. I'm happy to be here. I have been a Big Brother, and I sucked at it. And it gave me a jaded perspective on what to expect from the Big Brothers themselves and what to expect from the little brothers.
And that might have helped me enjoy this episode because it didn't go the way I thought it might. But yeah, with my own kid. Oh, my gosh, He's lucky to get to go to the hardware store with me. I'm not sure. I'm like, you know what? You're not invited. And he's like, hey, So yeah, yeah. I guess it's all perspective. But have I taken him camping? No. What does that say about me? Matt's a better dad than me. That hurts. See, you took me there right at the beginning, Todd. I didn't expect to question my fatherhood in comparison.
Matt Sykes right at the beginning. OK, let's get into it. Alienation Season 1 episode 14 Generation to Generation originally aired Monday, January 29th, 1990. It turns out that five years ago when the newcomer spaceship crashed and blew up, a body was thrown miles away. The local backwoods paint huffing hippie found this skeleton holding an ornate box and did what any of us would do. He pried it from the cold dead hands and sold it for 200 bucks weed money. It turns out this box is very special artifact and desperately sought after by newcomer elders like Uncle Moodri and mysterious dudes in suits that turn out to be from the energy company.
The elders want it because it's sacred and important for the future, but they won't say why or how. And the company stooges want it because one of them is a newcomer who thinks it might have a tank Deniz sort of Arc reactor inside that you can duplicate. While this is going on, we have Matt coerced into joining the Big Brothers of America because of things. This episode was written by Andrew Schneider and Diane Froloff. This couple wrote the first Cigar and Three to Tango as well as three more episodes after this one and three of the five TV movies.
I think they advise on the other episodes as well as producers. So I think of them as the 1990 version of a showrunner, which wasn't as common back then, along with Kenneth Johnson, who isn't writing or directing any of these, but he is producing them all and directing anything that's an A movie, an alienation movie. This is directed by John McPherson, one of the production team that met on The Incredible Hulk. There's a bunch of connections there. He directed 5 episodes including Fountain of Youth, First Cigar, in Contact.
He also directed a single episode of Babylon 5 And Todd. I don't know if you remember season 4 Episode 3 The Summoning, but the description says a mysterious spacecraft heads toward the station while Marcus and Ivanova search for more first ones to aid in the war. Oh yeah, that's cool. Yeah. All right. So go John McPherson. I think John McPherson likes working with Schneider and Fro Loft because they'll collaborate again on episode 17 Real Men. So I tried to summarize it because we're going to talk about details.
What was your first reaction to this episode, Todd? Very similar to the last few episodes where it's very even keel. Overall, I definitely like it, but at the same time in the middle of the road kind of way where there's nothing so frustrating that makes it bad or disappointing, but at the same time nothing so impressive that I'm I'm blown away by it either. And I, I apologize that I've said that for the last few episodes, but that we're in that stretch of what I call stable episodes. In fact, that's kind of the way I've often described Stargate SG-1.
To me, that show didn't have very huge highs, but hardly ever, if ever, had any low lows. It was always just very stable. It was always somewhere between good to above average and I feel like we're in a like a little miniature stretch of that with this show. And in fact, I'm not sure what next week's episode is going to be like, but I do know that the two episodes after that are going to be higher peaks. But right now we're in that even keel middle range for me. How about you? Well, this episode bugged me in a couple of ways, and I think part of that is my fault because my process for watching these is different than yours.
I think you can kind of go through them a couple of times, maybe in the background as well. And I try and absolutely devour every inch of film as I go through each episode once and then don't revisit it again. So I may have gotten too nitpicky and distracted to appreciate the overall spectrum. I got distracted by the B plot, I got distracted by the C plot, and I think I might have missed some of those big picture moments. But this movie did try to go to an emotional place and I got pulled into that hook, line and sinker.
It worked on me. So ultimately, it was really sweet and it it got me when it was supposed to, especially toward the end.
So we are ready for our sour milk notes, our positives. What's your first positive for this episode, Todd? All right, my, my first one is that it's great to have Moodri back. And since that's really broad and vague, I'll go into my next bullet point, which is about Tingtonese culture. And especially since several of these do relate to Moodri, it turns out that oh, and just in case somebody's joining us in the middle of things, Moodri is a recurring character. I think this is his fourth time showing up, and he is, I believe, Susan's biological uncle, even though it seems like he usually has more scenes with George.
So to George, he's an in law. But yeah, he's part of the family and I think he's been staying there, but he's not always on screen. But Mudri is also one of the elders of the Tanktonese, and some Tanktonese still go to the elders for guidance. There's a box at the center of this episode, and I wish it had a name. It's often just described as the box, but it's also called the Heart of Tincton and Moodri is is very connected. This box. He realizes immediately what it is and what since we're talking about the episode, I don't think it's a spoiler to say that this box, if used incorrectly, can basically fry people alive, whether they're tinctonies or human.
You've got to open it a certain way. And as an elder, Mudri is one of the people who knows how to open it. And then again, we're talking about the episodes. I hope it's not too big a deal to jump to this spoiler that's near the end of the episode. But basically the point of the box is that when you do open it correctly, it can show you what Ting Tong looks like. And then there's also one of the little bit of culture attached to Mudri. There's something called Semyon chains, which are kind of handmade necklaces that are passed down from man to man, and each man adds a link to the chain.
And Mudri gives the chain that he's working on to Buck for him to then give to George. And he tells him you'll know when it's time to give to George. And it's a little weird that he gives it to Buck, who is then supposed to give it to George, knowing that George being the older generation, will probably end up giving it right back to Buck. But I think the point is that Moodri knows that that that George kind of looks at him with an odd eye and that he has more of a connection to Buck. So I think he's giving it to Buck for safekeeping and knowing that George will be the and that that's all that Buck needs to do.
But that once it goes to George, then George will need to add his link and then he can give it back to Buck, with Buck, of course, someday adding his own link and passing it down to somebody else. So yeah, it's always neat when the show explore explores culture. And sometimes I put that in a different category. But since I don't have a ton of stuff in my good or bad stuff categories, I've moved it to good stuff. And, and those are the more detailed ways of saying how great it is to have Moodri back.
Yeah, I watched this show as a kid and I think I was irritated with Uncle Moodri because George was irritated with Uncle Moodri and he is a cryptic hippie character, sort of barefoot and bringing in farm animals and disrupting the household. And I'm a the kind of person who's frustrated by disruption. So I don't know, I read that frustration and and adopted it. But the other thing is that Moodri is a good example of this thing we all have where we experience the older generation trying to speak to us and share what they think are Nuggets of wisdom.
And for whatever reason, generation generationally, it doesn't translate. So we end up rolling our eyes or being frustrated and we see George go through this. He doesn't hate Moodri. It's not quite 80s sitcom, but he is trying and he just does not get where this guy's coming from. So yeah, you're Semia Chain is my third positive, so I'll jump to that and just say that he gives this necklace to we see him fashioning his last link, which I guess implies he's had it this whole time and it never even he didn't get to the place where he was making the link.
Maybe you wait until you feel like you're near the end of your time with the chain to make the link and then you pass it on. But he when he gives it to Buck, it is, it's like Moodri understands that if he hands it to George, George will be like, thank you so much for your bizarre trinket that I do not want. And he's going to put it in a box or something as nicely as he can, but Buck will care about it. And I thought the same thing. I'm like, just give it to Buck. George doesn't care. But Moodri senses, and we've covered previously that the man does seem to have some sort of extra sensory thing going on.
He sort of predicts that a time or moment will come when George will care and Till's buck to wait for that moment and then give it to him. And this is what I meant earlier with emotional resonance. There are movies that I like that try for an emotional scene and don't do as well as this one episode. So that says something. You try and make the audience get a little misty, and I think they did a good job with it. So when George does get the neck chain, the semia, eventually, it is because I mean, we're kind of giving everything away and I think that'll help us carry on.
But Mudri seems to know that he is not going to make it through this episode when he gives it to Buck, Buck is like, don't you need it? And he's like, no, you know, I, I think I've got everything I need. He implied right then I don't think that he was going to make it through the episode. So when he does end up dying in the course of the episode and George is struck with it, I think we'll come back to that in a little bit. But they have this emotional moment where Buck is outside and George comes out and talks to him.
Moodri wanted them to name the baby that's on the way in a traditional way after the mother's mother's name. And the Francisco parents look at each other, and Susan's mother was apparently named Vesna. And they both don't like that name. They think of it like Verna, like a just traditional name. They're like, uh, George wants to name the baby Heidi, going along with his continued theme of assimilation and fitting in.
You should be practicing it every day. Why? What do I need? We've got to assemble this pod swing. I am sick of looking at that box line. Yes, all right. But Uncle Moody's in the guest room where we're going to put it, can we? Talk about this later. What are we going to name our new baby sister? Well, there's several possibilities. I like Heidi. Yeah, Uncle Moody says we should name a girl after the mother's mother. Make that name. Why don't we call her something pretty like Wilma? Or Heidi, I agree with uncle.
You should name her Vesna AM. How do you say window in tech to me? Oh, leave me alone. But after Mudri passes away and it's really struck George hard, he comes out and he's talking to Buck. He's just standing there looking at the stars and and he says, you know, we've decided to name the baby Vesna. Buck knows that that means that he started to care about his Uncle Mudri. And he's like, he wanted you to have this. So he gives him the necklace. George gets emotional. Buck touches George's temple affectionately, which is one of the things they do.
They embrace and Buck cries, which is also pretty cool because it's, you know, men. And it's a teen, clearly troubled teen. So that was like, a nice scene. It really got me. What's your next one? Well mine is similar. I love that they decided to name the baby Vesna. So you already described the previous scenes where they're trying to figure out the name and there's nothing wrong with Heidi, but one of the other names that they were thinking about wasn't that great. And so and they're also kind of human names.
And I think because they're, you know, on Earth now and part of the reason they had the baby was kind of connect themselves to their new world. They were of course thinking about a human name. But even though they don't originate on Earth, they already have adopted human names. And so I think it's nice symmetry that the baby born on Earth gets an alien name. And I think Vesna is just a really cool name. And if you'll remember, way back in one of our first episodes, I kind of implied that I can't remember exactly what it was I was talking about, but I said something about how in a future episode, things will get better or will get at least that one really good episode.
It'll have something to do with a character whose name starts with AV. And you didn't know what I was talking about. Well, this is the V name, it's Vest, and the episode that I'm talking about is still coming up, but at least now we know the name of that character when that character gets here. Well, since it was a character with a letter that I didn't know who that was. I guessed you were talking about the baby. But I have very fuzzy memories. This is as good a time as they need to mention that I have no recollection of this episode at all.
I'm not a reliable resource for what actually happened, but there's a chance that I know some of these episodes I will have missed because of not taping them when they first came on. But yeah, very surprised by a lot of this. So yes, we'll see what happens with that. I'm still in the dark. My next one. OK, so after they find out that this box even exists and is missing at the beginning, apparently there's a scene we don't see where George goes home shares about the box. Moodri knows what the box is.
Moodri insists on going that like to an auction where they're going to auction off the box. This all goes down off camera. So we rejoined George and Buck and Uncle Moodri at an auction. And Matt is not there because it's not really a police function. They're just there. And this resonated with me because I've seen a lot of shows do auction scenes. And in a lot of shows, there will be a character who is bidding inappropriately, bidding money they don't have, bidding, putting their family in debt.
The guy who's middle income saying 120,000, you know, And as the viewer, I'm like going out of my skin. So I really like in this episode that when Moodri just starts frantically yelling out bids more and more and more, he just keeps trying to raise every bid from everybody else. But he says George finally tells the auctioneer he does not have money to pay it. And the auctioneer kind of questions him a second and then literally just starts disregarding Moodri, which, oh, it gave me such peace in my heart because it's like, yes, you can say this guy at the auction, he's a crazy person.
In most TV, if you raise your little paper fan, they're going to come after you like mob enforcers. There's no take backs. If you scratch your nose wrong, you're on the hook for $20,000. So that was, that was very cathartic for me because I've seen Bill wrong so many times. It is also worth mentioning in the auction scene that George, not with bitterness or anger or anything, just notes how weird it is that people buy artifacts of slavery and buck comments on people collecting Nazi helmets and stuff.
But to drive the point home, the Riders have them first auction off a sleeping pallet with shackles intact from the newcomer ship that crashed, and he mentions that the shackles are only slightly seared from the explosion, so it's exactly as creepy as I think they were going for. Yeah, yeah, That's cool. Yeah. Let me see my next one. In fact, kind of my last one is that it's nice to see Matt getting to be a Big Brother. Now, of course, he's terrible at it because he's a caveman, doesn't know how to do anything like usual.
But luck, He he lucked up because he got a kid who doesn't mind. This kid is easy to please. Now, Grant, he might be a little bit too easy to please. I mean, it doesn't matter what Matt does. This kid acts like he's glad to just be out of the house. He's like, I'm just glad to be out of the house because Grandma smells weird or something like that. I don't know what's going on there. It makes me wonder, is there something majorly wrong with Grandma where he's like, I just got to get out of here?
But Matt at least does kind of figure out that he sucks at it. You know, they get back from spending one day together and apparently Matt has taken him to the hardware store, which is where that reference comes from in my weird little intro. And he's also. Also apparently taken him to the cleaners to try to pick up his dry cleaning. And I think he takes him to one other mundane place and the kids just thank him for taking all these weird places. And Matt says maybe next time we'll go to the movies.
And I'm thinking, why don't you go this time? And then you are making reference to the final scene where they go camping. And I think you said something like maybe you're bad for not taking your son camping. No, I think you're teaching your son the importance of a mortgage because if you're paying 100, you know, several $100 a month for your house. Why would you go out and sleep out in the woods? Because I have my own terminology for camping. I call it simulated homelessness. The way I feel about it, if you're paying a mortgage, why would you want to go somewhere where you got to sleep on the ground, possibly wake up in the rain, possibly be attacked by a bear or eaten by, you know, mosquitoes or chipmunks or or whatever, you know, poop out in the woods?
Why? Why would you want all this? You pay hundreds of dollars a month for walls, roof, indoor plumbing, shelter, warmth. Why would you want to go out and sleep on the ground? So no, you're, you're teaching your kid good values sleep indoors because we pay for this. So you're, you're sending a good message, but for some weird reason, this kid wants to be outside for some reason and Matt is humoring him. So he's a better person than. I am. I will try not to just repeat everything you said listeners.
I have had positive camping experiences, Todd, if you don't get to eat for a big chunk of the day because you're preparing the fire and the food, you're so hungry by the time you eat that it's like one of the best experiences of your life. And there are other fun things. But you know, we all light up when we have like fire, fire, fire, fire, fire. But anyway, I won't get into the joys of camping, but there this bee plot with the Big Brothers of America. As far as I can tell there's no point to it.
The episode is generation to generation. Matt has a kid and they decided not to bring her back so we contrive a kid for him to have a generational impact on. George is connecting with his uncle and his child. I guess it's not really stated or clear to me that way at all. It's just more like Matt has this side adventure for no reason except that when they go see the hippie in the woods who stole the box at least twice and is clearly on drugs in the chase we find out that Matt is afraid of the woods.
And rightly so. He's afraid of spiders, he's afraid of Poison Ivy, He's just squeamish. And we kind of go on a journey with him in this where eventually he's telling this little boy he's his Big Brother and he's telling him about how dangerous the woods are. It's very dangerous. And it culminates with them going camping, which instead of the emotional end that I was talking about, this is the end of the episode with him and Sydney, the little kid in the woods having this great time together. And Matt is still twitching and looking over his shoulder because he's scared.
I. Told you it was dangerous here. My positive is what you already said. TV has trained me that foster kids, adopted kids, little brothers are all conniving, mischievous rascals, desperate, clinging, grasping and Sydney is so nice that you're sure he is about to do something terrible. He's going to steal the car and go for a drive or something. And no, he is just a really nice kid and he's just thrilled for anything he can get. And he's like, I left you alone for three hours in the police station.
Gee whiz, a real police station. A guy puked over there. He's just happy with anything. Loves the hardware store, loves it. I thought it was sarcasm. It's not. He's just a nice kid. Look, Sydney, sorry I'm so late. Just two hours. I told my grandma. You want a real important kiss? Wow, wasn't that pretty? What? The flowers, the trees? Looks like the woods. It does. Yeah, I've never been to the woods, but I've seen lots of pictures. I was born in Detroit, but I've been to the woods. Maybe sometime you and me, we'll go camping.
That's what I really like to do. Bears, big rocks, waterfalls, the. Woods can be a very dangerous place that Poison Ivy, poison oak, spiders fall off those big rocks. You've been camping. No, no, not personally. But I knew this guy who broke his leg in the Angeles forest. I had to spend the whole night there alone. No food or water. Could have died if the Cub Scouts hadn't come by. Found him the next day. Look, Sydney, I I I got to do some errands. Let's go.
Well, your grandmother should be here any minute. Matt, I had a great day. That hardware store had lots of neat stuff. Yeah, and thanks for letting me stay in the car when I went through the car wash. And I like the man to clean your clothes. Too bad they can't get that one stain out of your shirt. Well, maybe next time we'll go to the movies or something. So I like the non twist that Sydney really is what he appears to be and he just appreciates stuff. And once again, you and I kind of match up.
It still makes me wonder what's going on with Grandma. Grandma must must be a horror. She just, well, she works, so she's not only a grandmother who doesn't take him to do anything ever. He doesn't get to go out to hardware stores with grandma, and she's gone a lot. So yeah, maybe he's with Miss Fig down the street. I have two small additional ones and one kind of Moody additional 1. So are you done with good things? Well, the only other thing I'll I'll say to elaborate on my last point is that, you know, we've often complained about Matt being a caveman and in a way he still hit is here too.
He's often the frustration in a show that is bigger and better than he is. And no offense to the actor, he's playing it the way he's written, but it's all it's, it's like a lot of times Matt is a thing that gets in a way of an episode being better. And even though he still shows a little bit of that here where he is kind of annoying by not doing the right thing with a kid, at least not at 1st and having to take a while to learn in this episode and the last few, he's getting better and getting better faster.
And so he doesn't come anywhere close to ruining this episode. So we still get that little element of him being a little bit stupid, but it's not, it's not such a bad stupid that it that it tears down the episode. That is a that is a crap positive.
He's not listeners. He is not so stupid that he tears down the episodes. I think it's funny to me because I think we are represented by Matt Sykes. He is the John Cusack, every man in this show, and he represents us. We are not George Francisco. He's an Angel on earth. We wish we could be George Francisco. We are. We are the lousy, jaded, burned out cop who screws up everything with his family and he's the hero. He's the hero. But yes, that's great. An easy one I have is that when he is dropping the kid off with his grandma and they get out of the car, did you see the kind of car it is when they walk around to the back of it?
Yes, yeah. And I think.
We mentioned in the back in the episode 15 with Wanda that Matt's daughter Kirby had wrecked his Corallo. He loved. I don't think there's a real car called a Corallo. And you had mentioned, I think some of these cars are just normal cars with spoilers glued on the back and it follows through. It's very pretty red car, but they've put Corallo very clearly on the back, so I guess he got it fixed. And that's really, really nice. Yeah, he another tiny 1 is just that. As we mentioned, when you open the box right, you see this vision of Tankton, and it's lovely.
I mean, for 1990s special effects, they did a pretty great job. That's like maybe one of the first things that I'd kind of like to go back and look at again. But yes, Buck hasn't seen it yet. So I hope the elders do succeed in building their little church so Buck can come out and look at it. I think he needs to see it a lot more than Matt and George do. But my other thing is just that I consistently love rituals. And after Uncle Mudri dies, the Franciscos do this little memorial service. And I thought it was really cool.
So the four of them, we've seen a funeral before, and this is not that. So maybe this is just immediate family or this is based on what Mudri would have wanted because he has kind of hippy, dippy beliefs compared to them. But the service was cool. They take turns dumping a blue flame reactant into a little middle fire that they're sitting around crisscross applesauce on the living room floor, and you dump your little cup of stuff into the fire. It bursts in blue flame for a second and then you share a memory.
Emily. I remember when Uncle Muji told me bedtime stories of Tank Tom. I'll just tell you a family. Now let's time Emily look. I remember when Uncle Muji took. Me to the sea. And he gave me hope. Now this time. I really miss him, George. I remember Moodri's love for his people and tradition, and his hope for our future. Nala's tired memory.
Nala's tired memory. Yes, hello, George, I'm. Sorry to bother. You. Oh, Matt, it's all right. We're in the middle of our coruna from Audrey. So now you guys know a memorial service where you sit around and say what you remember. The blue flames is a corona. I like that. I like the rituals. Yeah, and George also said that they were in the middle of it, so I can't help but wonder what more there is to that little ceremony, assuming that there was more after George got off the phone. So I guess we'll get to see it, but.
They felt like they were almost done. You're right. So yeah. Yeah, But I, Yeah, I just can't help but wonder if there's more to it. And it seemed like we do get those little snippets way back in one of our earliest episodes, there was something where they were memorializing a cop that got killed. And it seemed like that ceremony was really quick, too. It seemed like we get little snippets. And sometimes I wouldn't mind getting maybe just a little bit more because it, I, I think we've kind of established that culture, the exploration of this alien culture is one of our favorite things about the show, if not the best thing about the show.
And so sometimes I wish we'd get a little bit more of that. Are you ready for salt water? Yeah, Yeah, I think so. My first Salt Water is that the plot has me very frustrated and it might just be like I said, that I was too busy taking notes to appreciate it. But it's kind of like this. OK kids find the body. Then police say the body was holding something which leads us to the hippie and the hippie says he sold it, which leads us to the auction, which leads us to the guy who buys it and he opens it and melts his face.
But then the box is stolen back. We find out by the hippie because he feels he was gypped because he only got 200 bucks and they auctioned it for 20,000. So we think we go out to see the hippie, and while they're chasing the hippie, green yellow station wagon peels away, stealing the box. Again, we think it's the power guys, but it turns out it's the elders that could be Mudri driving that yellow station wagon. So the power guys are pretty sure Mudri and the elders have it. So they go to steal it from Mudri.
They hit him so hard he essentially dies. And then George and Matt go and get it back from the power guys to take it back to the elders. And all of this is happening while Matt is being a Big Brother. So it just, it just it, it frustrated me a bit. I think it's the nature of it. So I, I guess story writing wise, following a box on its journey kind of makes sense. But the fact that the power guys never actually have it until the end, I don't know. There's other things too, but what's your first saltwater?
Well, now I don't have this in my notes, but just follow up on what you're saying. I think you're right, and that's one of the things that is making these last few episodes good. But not that good, is there? It does seem to be distracted by a bunch of mundane logistics and police work and stuff like that that gets in the way of, like I just said, alien culture, which is what we really want more of. And so we get it sprinkled in, and sometimes it's even the point of the episode, but there's still this layer of mundaneness, this earthbound stuff on top of it.
And sometimes I wish that could get peeled away. I wouldn't like this show had lasted beyond Season 1. I wouldn't mind having whole episodes in future seasons where it's just like, for, for whatever reason, Matt is on vacation. There's not a a police story going on. And so we just get to focus on the Francisco family. And because there are no other humans around, they just get to be as alien as they need to be. And we get to see nothing but alienness going on for like a, a very special episode. I wish we could get that, but that's not the show that this is now.
I mentioned that there are two episodes coming up. There's still not quite what I described, but there may be a little bit closer. So, but yeah, this one's not close to that. But anyway, you were talking a lot about structure, and you really did kind of, like I said, a very general problem. I picked out 1 little nitpick in that this episode opens up with two girls playing hide and seek, and the whole point of them playing hide and seek is to find this body that starts that chain of reaction that you just described.
The thing is we're watching them play hide and seek for I clocked it, it was a minute and 20 seconds. We need, we did not need a minute and 20 seconds of watching 2 girls playing hide and seek. So I I think they could have stepped on the gas a little bit in the beginning of the episode. The girls finding the body is the only reason the cops go and talk to the hippie and find out about the missing trunk that was stolen that goes to auction. So if they hadn't found the body right then in the woods, even though it's been there for five years, the police wouldn't have even known about the auction.
Oh yeah, I'm not saying don't show. No, no, no, I'm. No, I'm. I'm saying it's, it's really far fetched, like, oh, OK, the, the guy, the hippie did not, you know, who knows when he found the box, but the police come in after it's already gone. It just happens to be that everybody found it at the same time, which is just a huge coincidence. But yes, I don't know that I think there are other episodes where the plot doesn't hold a lot of water or bare scrutiny, but I've mostly just ignore those bits.
But this one, it was convoluted enough that I tried to untangle it. And when you poke at it, you're like, wait a second. But yes, there's more was. So there's a character named Ballard. I pay a lot of attention to character names because I'm trying to figure out who these actors are. Richard Ballard One of the most notable things about him is that I really, he doesn't need to be in this episode. He doesn't do anything really. But he also stands out to me because he's not credited. He's nowhere in the credits, but they say his name out loud and he's standing right over there.
So I think this is multiple repeat extra Bob Harks again, who's played a detective in the background a few times. Just random white guy. Ballard We barely see him on screen. He has no lines. He may be one of the toughs, yelling to give them a box through Mudri's door, banging on the door. You don't come out. We're coming in there and getting it. We don't really see them in that scene. So the character is weird. He's more important than he should be and also so unimportant that he doesn't really deserve the name and screen time he gets.
But the energy guys, they need a stooge. It doesn't really fit the plot for them to be, I don't know, beating people up so that bring in this character. But anyway, his license plate number and his rap sheet are what and his connection to the energy guy we haven't mentioned yet, Heinrich Glass, who's a newcomer, is what leads them back to the energy people who they thought had the box. And this time they actually do toward the end. So following the enforcer dude, Richard Ballard is what Matt calls George out of his memorial service about so they can go wrap this case up.
But it's it's so strange, like when they do bust in, the guy is like in the middle of say they're trying to cut the box open with a laser. Ballard, you better stand behind that protective glass over there. And he walks over behind the protective glass. But the other two guys don't. They like walk somewhere else. I'm pretty sure. I really thought Ballard was going to get fried. But no, no, it's just so when Matt and George run in, Ballard can, like, be wrestling with Matt to distract him, I guess.
But it's just it was a strange side character that you're like, wait, who is this guy? And I don't know. I don't know. I don't think they give extras enough attention. But he solved a writing problem. I think if George had finished his ceremony and called Matt because he's just sure the energy guys have it and Matt has been like, let's go, it would have accomplished the exact same thing. But it's. They needed a character. Yeah, what else do you got? I've got one other, but I might save it because I wouldn't be surprised if you're going to mention it.
So I'll skip to one thing that might not even be a fault of the show itself. I don't know if it's a problem with the production of the episode or a problem with the Fox network that originally broadcast this, or if it's a problem with Apple TV, which is where I I purchased these episodes. But the quality of the picture and sound seem even worse in this episode than the first 13 episodes because the picture and sound have never been great. The, the quality of the picture that I've been watching all along, it's never been great, but it it somehow seems even darker and grainier this time around.
And I'm like, wow, I paid money for this. And I just wish it were clear. And if I remember correctly, you're watching this on DVDs. And so I can't help but wonder if they have better quality or if they're not great either. But yeah, for some reason, it seems like a step down. I don't have this in my notes, but we've talked about this before how this is the first episode where the opening credits. Does not have three actors that it did before. And my guess is this is back in the days of the classic structure where a show is picked up for 13 episodes and then if it's good enough, it gets picked up for the back 9.
And that's how some seasons equal 13 episodes and other seasons equal 22 episodes. It matters whether it got picked up for those additional nine. Well, this is the first episode in that back 9 and I'm guessing that's why 3 actors are gone. The opening credits are are different different and I can't help but wonder if the budget got cut on the production quality. There again, this might have something to do with transferring the episode to other mediums, and it might be more of either a Fox network problem or an Apple TV problem.
My DVD's are crystal clear and this is an old pack of DVD's. They're a cardboard box with three slim packs in it, 2 discs each. I do recommend it. They haven't re released this really pretty and they've only released the TV movies once. So those are really expensive online. They're currently available on YouTube listeners so that when Todd and I get to those, the picture quality might be truly awful, but we'll get through. But yes, I'm not a good source of information about picture quality because maybe it's just I like my TVI think it's good, but unless something is truly awful, I haven't really experienced the staggering difference with 4K or Blu-ray or DVD yet.
I just I'm pretty easy to please most of the time. But yeah, I think they're pretty good so. And I have another salt water, but not about the show, but about me. Because I'm an idiot. We already knew that. But yeah, I just now realized, I remember, wait a minute, didn't I at one time buy the DVD's for both the series and the TV movies? So I just went over to the drawer at the bottom of my entertainment center and yeah, I own them and I grew up. Yeah, I know. And I'm really, I'm a dumbass for years, but I also have a DVD player, but I have lost the remote for it.
So now I have and I've been thinking I really need to find the remote so I can use a DVD player. So maybe I could finally buy Babylon 5 on the Blu rays that have come out because I think it's actually a Blu-ray player, so just a DVD player. But I keep forgetting to look for the remote. And I don't know why I can't find the remote because I'm usually better at keeping stuff that I need. But I also forgot I think at one time that I even had the Blu-ray player. So I found it. I'm like, oh, that's great, where's the remote?
And I don't know what I've done the remote. I'm worried that I might have thrown it away, but I don't know why I would have done that either. So if I could find the remote, I could use a Blu-ray player to play the DVDs that I've owned for a long time. And then I would have a crystal crystal clear picture and I would never have had to buy this on Apple TV. But but I'm dumb. This is old nose quail. Honestly. So we are on episode 19 of the Alienating Ourselves podcast and there are twists and turns.
Listeners, Paul Todd has discovered that he owns the series. Did you? You didn't say you owned the TV movies too, did you? Yeah. Todd, Oh my gosh, you've gone from having less than me to having more than me. Are they a nice set? Are they in a box that says what they are? Let me see. I am fascinated. I'm sorry y'all but this is like if you don't know people are scalping the TV movies online. I mean, some people are selling it for less and I don't know if that's reputable, but some people are trying to get a ton of cash for them.
All right, so the movie collection has a big yellow tinted alien head on it. It doesn't look like George, it just looks like a generic tank knees person, mostly yellow skin, but you can detect a little bit of, you know, spot pattern up at the top. And then on the inside it has 2 slim cases. Disc one is dark horizon and in the other case disc 2 is body and soul and Millennium and disc 3 is the enemy within and the Udara legacy. And then for the series, that's three slim cases. Yeah, that's the one I have.
Yeah, Yeah, that's, Oh, shoot. Yeah. So you're going to have, you're going to have an op. Well, you said you got to get your DVD player situation figured out, but yeah, yeah, you're you're going to have better subtitles, man. You're going to have better picture. It's going to be a whole awakening. Maybe we can start over. Get it right this time.
I'm excited for you. No, you know the the only thing worse than like, oh, I messed up is not realizing that you had something all along. So yeah, you're there and we still have, gosh, several episodes and the movies. I mean, you're ready to go. Yeah, gotta find that stupid remote. Either that or get a universal remote that will work with a Blu-ray player. Oh, that, yeah, I promise it'll be cheaper than the the TV movies, but yes, interesting. We've got twists and turns, man. I'm, I'm kind of stoked for you.
You'll have to send me a picture of that set because that's cool. None of the pictures online are really reputable. My next negative is that it bothers me a little bit plot wise, that the energy guys are right. They are on the right track. Everything they're doing makes perfect sense. They're not nice people, but they have a theory based on the myths that Heinrich Glass, the newcomer, heard on the ship, that the box has something powerful in it, that it might have an energy source that they can use replicate, duplicate to generate, maybe clean power, maybe pollution free, safe energy.
And that would be great for their industry. And when you listen to Moodri, he doesn't actually explain it clearly, but the box has not one but two devices in it. Device A is what Todd was talking about. I don't know if you'd call it a mental interface. So they all go get thrown into the Matrix wirelessly and Wi-Fi and you get to see Tankton with all this high def imagery. Or if it's like a hologram projector, I lean toward A, but you could argue for B. But it's powerful and it has AB device and it's separate because Mudri tells us it's separate.
He says this other device is to keep people who aren't supposed to open it from opening it. This device fries you like a flamethrower at close range without destroying the room around you. They talk about it a bit. So those are two devices that do not seem to need power cords, cables or battery changes, both very powerful devices inside this box. So yes, if the kids did not find the dead body and the energy guys, yeah, sure, maybe they kill a few flunkies trying to open it and stuff and they eventually find 2 machines in there.
They reverse engineer them like Terminators and yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm, I, I, I like the newcomers having the heart of Tankton, but I'm just saying like, wow, there's a lot of energy in there. And who knows, maybe they'd save on a hard drive. You know what Tankton looks like and stuff. Yeah. And in addition to all the stuff you mentioned, like its main purpose and its defense system, in addition to all that, if you look at the box after it's been open and it's already fried somebody and so it's kind of inert at the moment, it looks like an empty box, which means it's either cloaking itself or all the previously mentioned technology that you talked about is somehow stored in the edges of the box and allowing it to have just empty space in the middle.
So yeah, there's a lot going on there. At the same time, I don't have this in my nose, but it's another thing I thought of while you were talking. 1 little nitpick I would have is how are they they making all these assumptions about about the box when they have not opened it? They do not know what's inside. I mean, I guess since there is a tanked on person a tanked in these person who is also seeking this box, I guess maybe they have a hint at what the box does. But for the most part, they're just guessing what the box could do.
And I can't help but wonder what are they doing with this laser? What are they doing shooting it and, and thinking that's going to open it. It's obviously not doing anything. So what is this laser? I mean, obviously in real light, in real life, it's just a light beam that they're projecting it at the box and it's not a real laser. But if even if it were a real laser, wouldn't they be afraid that it's going to damage the box? It's so everything about what they were suing about the box and how they were trying to open it and how they were thinking that would open it and not damage it is all just really convoluted.
Yeah, yeah, there are some highly questionable things there. Maybe there could have been a scene where a little boy Heinrich Glass, newcomer on the ship, sees Elders opening the box in a bright light inside. And that would have been enough for us to go on for him to go through all this. But no, we didn't see that. And yes, it is if if you can open the box wrong and it looks empty, you really don't even need the person frying device. Well, that's and that's the other thing. If they literally detached the person frying device and if you open it wrong, it's just empty, they could give the person frying device to the energy company.
They'd probably be happy as clams. Yeah. But anyway, I only break it down because I care. My next negative is just that Kathy's not in this episode. Boo, Terry Trees. We miss you. There could have been some fun interactions with her and Sykes taking a little kid around with him. You know, I, but I really, I want to mention that in the episode that I probably liked the least, where we saw Matt arguing with his ex-wife and really failing as a father. And to be fair, George was failing as a father in that episode too.
I really wanted to be on Matt's side. OK. She argues that he was never around. He's married to his job. He cared more about his job than being a father. He argued that she made it impossible for him to be with the kid, that he she got to where she would shut him out when he did have time off and stuff. Like I said, Matt represents us and 80s women who were powerful were all depicted as terrible people, so the show gives us enough reason to not like her. But this episode, here we have him with a kid.
And beyond just being uncomfortable around a kid, we see some significant anecdotal evidence that she was right and he was wrong and he was a frequently absent crap dad. It may still not be true, but this episode did not help his side. And again when we had flashbacks, audio flashbacks of him and his daughter Kirby at the end of 15 with Wanda. They're only like 4 memories of him being a father and one of them was in that episode and 1 is a baby and one is her saying why does daddy have to leave?
So it's like, I want to back you up, Matt Sykes. Good Lord. Which the rest of my negatives are the segment that I like to bring up. Yikes, Sykes, Yikes, Yikes, Yikes bad Sykes. I hate these know it all muffin heads who come from outer space. Frenchman, a Russian and a sponge head. They're a boat in the middle of the ocean. Why stop with running them back to Slag Town? Why don't we just kill them? You are emotionally involved. It makes for bad police work. Josh, what's that guy doing over there? Quick guy.
What was that name again? Makes for bad police work.
It's bad police work. Yikes. Yikes, Yikes. I'm Kathy Frankel. Matt Sykes. Oh yeah, I know. In your language, Sykes means excrement and cranium. Yikes, Yikes. Yikes. Big Yikes. Bad Sykes. Yikes, Yikes. Sykes, Sykes, Sykes. When we talk about the terrible choices Matt makes as a cop, possibly how often he almost accidentally shoots someone. Other things we've already mentioned taking the kid to to the hardware store and the and Sydney, the boy is like, Gee whiz, I'm sorry the dry cleaner couldn't get that wine stain out of your shirt.
So the writers are telling us that Matt is not great. But in addition to that, when he finds the kid sitting at his desk at the police station and he decides he has to leave him there alone in the police station, there are punks being dragged in, newcomer with a bruise on his face and a guy with a foot tall blue Mohawk that had clearly been fighting. He's like, yeah, OK, I'll leave you alone in the police station at my desk for a couple of hours. And he goes into his desk drawer and he pulls out, Here's a motorcycle magazine for you, kid.
And here's a car magazine for you kid. And here's a oh, you don't want that? And we can all see it's a Playboy he puts back in his desk. So he just leaves the kid at his police desk. But then, and I mean if any of you've seen the movie Copycat, tragedy happens because a cop does not lock his desk with his gun in his desk. Well, Sydney's been sitting at this desk for a while before Matt shows up. Before leaving, Matt reaches into that desk drawer past the Playboy and pulls out his handgun, slips it into the back of his jeans, pointing down at his butt.
Another classic cop move for Sykes. It's just like, no, please. So yes, he does. He tries to say positive things like, hey, get yourself some snacks. He gives them some change for the vending machine. Get something help me like some corn chips. And when they're out at a food truck, I think they're trying to show us that he took him to the easiest place possible. He says, hey, you need some vegetables and he squirts ketchup on his little food tray. So yes, Matt is kind of, he's hitting some all time lows in this one.
Yeah, How is he alive and how is he employed? He pays his taxes, we found that out, and he's irresistible to women in his building. So. Kathy could do better. This Is Us, man. He is the everyman. He represents you and me. Are we ready for connecting the spots? Yeah, because funny enough, my last remaining bullet point was the one I said I was going to reserve because you might take it, and I had a feeling you would. And it was that there's no Kathy. Dang it, no copy. Yeah. So yeah, I'm I'm ready to move on to connecting the spot all.
Right. Well, the box, when you open it, it glows warm on the person's face no matter how you open it, at least at 1st. And this may remind viewers of Pulp Fiction, which did not come out for three years after this. So you could imagine that Tarantino had watched Alien Nation. Although my a college cinema class teacher said that it was an homage to a 1955 noir called Kiss Me Deadly. He showed us a clip of where a person opens the box and there's a soft blow on them so curses the box also I think has a pretty obvious similarity.
The Ark of the Covenant, both biblically and in the way it's talked about by the elders and in the plot as you open it and it literally melts your face. This episode does come out, it's almost 10 years after Raiders of the Lost Ark. So yes, I think definitely Ark of the Covenant vibes. And since you bring up the box 1 of mine is that this box will show up again in one of the TV movies. What? I I think it's the one called Millennium, OK, I think that's. Cool. Yeah, I don't think it's the is is definitely not the first one and I don't think it's second one either.
I think it's the third or fourth one that it shows up in. Wow. Yeah, and it's actually kind of like a major thing in the plot of that episode, and we see more of it and more of what it can do. OK, well that's cool. I like it when anybody follows up on anything. It occurred to me while watching this, while we're talking about Matt taking Sydney around, that if they had had real gutsy decision making in the writers room, I would have kept bringing Sydney back. I don't approve the attic kid in a lot of shows, but, you know, give Matt something that gives him a little bit more personality and character.
George has a whole family. Sydney could at least have a little brother around all the time. We don't have to see him going and coming and pay the grandmother actress every time. But Nope. Nope. So I love it when they continue anything I can start listing actors. OK, Yeah. Because I just have one of those. All right, we have. I mean, you mentioned that we've got Moodry back. Captain Grazer, Brian Grazer's in this one again, so thankful for that. He has a small part. He's just stoked for Matt to be a Big Brother because it could be good PR for the force.
So the Hippie in the Woods is played by a guy named Lowell Bradigan. And well, I'm sorry. The Hippie in the Woods is played by Timothy Scott. His name is Lowell, and he's a frequent cowboy. He's in some big things, from fried green tomatoes to Footloose in the heat of the night, Butch and Sundance, Guess who's coming to dinner? He's been a busy guy. But his greatest accomplishment was in the second season of the 1966 Batman series, which I don't bring up just because none of these people are in it.
But there was a famous cowboy movie named Shane that some of you know about. S 1966 Adam West Batman had a evil cowboy adversary on the old show who was named Shame with an M like Mark or madness. And this guy Timothy Scott played his sidekick Messi James. That's great. So anyway, he was also in the greenhorn at the same year. Timothy Scott actually died just a few years after making this episode at the young age of 58. So this was one of his last big hurrahs. But this is a he's playing a ridiculous character in this, But he's he goes in and finds a dead body fried to a crisp and glistening, holding this box that's burning hot, and he grabs it and runs.
It's great. Heinrich Glass stood out to me. I always say I can't recognize these people with their newcomer makeup on, but Scott, Jack, Jack, I can. JAECK Scott was in the pilot for Star Trek Voyager uncredited, and he was in what some people say is the best episode of Star Trek The Next Generation. Or, you know, one of the best episodes. It's called The Inner Light in Season 5. And he plays an administrator who just, I don't know, Scott has an interesting face. It kind of stands out to you. Big bright eyes so you can see him through makeup.
But I did. I recognize that guy right away. Yeah, the kids. OK, Yeah, I reckon. You know from where? I'm sorry. Yeah, the kid, Sydney, that is Michael Faustino. If you don't know a lot of Faustino's, there's one other one. This is David Faustino's little brother from Married With Children. And Michael Faustino has another big credit. He plays the younger boy, the littler boy, Eugene in the Monster Squad, which I only know about because my wife brought it into the marriage. But so I've seen Eugene in that a lot, but he's kind of hard to recognize.
He looks a little bit different in this episode. But yes, that's Michael Faustino. He doesn't have a lot of other credits. Now there is a evil energy guy that's not that evil. He seems to have a conflicted nature, which was. I don't know, they just wrote that in but. The character's name is Howard Thayer and it really got in the way. I think I just wrote them both down in notes as evil energy guy, newcomer and human. But Howard Thayer is played by a guy named Francis Guinan who he was Master Pacu in the terrible Airbender movie that came out years ago.
He was in the practice three times as three different characters. So there's that David E Kelley connection. We keep seeing Star Trek Enterprise Season 2 episode two different episodes of Star Trek Voyager, but if you ever watched a show called Erie, Indiana, this is the dad of the main character Marshall, played by Omri Katz, the boy from Hocus Pocus. If you haven't seen Erie, Indiana, I'm not saying you'll like it necessarily, but Erie and Erie, Indiana is kind of like if you tried to make a show where Fox Mulder was a little kid solving mysteries around his own hometown, that would kind of be Erie, Indiana.
And the human energy guy who has conflicted emotions and doesn't mean for anybody to get hurt is the dad from 19 episodes of that, which I think is the whole run. Aubrey Morris is the auctioneer, and Aubrey is a British guy who has a weird face. And I recognize him immediately because my family, my wife and I just rewatched Clockwork Orange and he kind of stands out to you. This British guy, he was also driving a cab and looking insane in the unappreciated Sherlock Holmes, Smarter Brother Not by Mel Brooks.
It just feels like it. He's in the Wicker Man. He's in Sledgehammer Bordello of Blood, Life Force. You and I could watch Life Force and talk about it on this podcast, Todd. It's Space Vampires by the guy who did Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Poltergeist, but he was also in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, the original 1981 British show, and one episode of Babylon Five in season 3 called Exogenesis, but I did not write down a description so who knows. Weird little British guy who played the auctioneer Peggy Doyle was Sydney's grandma who's dropping him off at the police station and picking him up at the police station and doesn't seem to have a problem with that.
I don't know her from anything except earlier in this show. Early in the show, we had a coroner named Howard who was vaguely Asian and talked with a New Jersey accent because that actor was from New Jersey. But he was in a movie called Kentucky Fried Movie, which is wonderful and inappropriate, and his sequence of Fistful of yen ends the same as Wizard of Oz, where it's like I'm in bed and Auntie Ms. there and you were there and you were there. Sydney's grandma is Auntie M from that sequence of the end of Kentucky Fried Movie, which matters if you've ever seen it.
But that's her only her only credit. I cared about the elder woman who's just listed as Krisava. She was in 61 episodes of Young and the Restless as Millie Johnston. If any of y'all are Young and the Restless people, we've got another Babylon 5 alum, Philip Dunaway, who played the first crispy villain. He's the man on the phone who was told to buy the box at any price at the auction. He played CIA director Raleigh in six episodes of West Wing. He was in Boston Legal. He was in The Practice, He was in X-Files, and he was in.
Yeah, just one episode of Babylon Five in the second season as Sergeant major. Plug, I think the episode is called Gropos. Oh, you remember? Awesome. Yeah. Kind of AI. Don't know, odd looking dude, but yeah, he looks kind of oily in this, but I don't know if he always does. He's in Briscoe County, junior picket fences, last Boy Scout Hotshots. There are a few people who haven't done anything, but my last one is Michelle Lamar Richards, who is Doctor Lois Allen. We already mentioned Michelle as the coroner a couple of episodes ago in the Red Room, but apparently she will stick around for several more episodes.
I mentioned last time that I love her in the Bodyguard and an important side part, but she'll be back in a month for four of the last five episodes and the first Alien Nation movie. She has multiple scenes in this episode, so I like that they're making good use of her. She's in episodes 1214182021 and 22, and she was in one episode of the short lived 1990 Flash series. So go Michelle Lamar Richards. That is it for me for connecting the spots. OK, so I only had one there. It was Aubrey Morris. And you already mentioned that he was in the season 3 Babylon 5 episode Exogenesis, and that when he played Duncan, who was a lurker and down below who he was kind of sort of a merchant, but kind of a low level merchant.
He sold just minor trinkets, trinkets to get like a meager living. And he was also kind of a friend of Marcus Cole. And I think he might have been a little bit of a maybe an informant for Marcus maybe, but it's the very least a friend. And Marcus Cole was a Ranger, so that was the connection with them. So yeah, I did recognize him immediately from that. Then of course, there is Dobbs Watch, Sort of. So as I already mentioned, this is the first episode with three people missing from the opening credits.
It's the actors that played Dobbs, Jill and Burns. Of course, Dobbs and Burns were in a few episodes, but they never had that many episodes or their own subplot or anything. Jill was in barely anything like her. Her the most number of scenes she had was in the very first episode. So she for a little girl, she got lucky to be in the opening credits for 13 episodes of TV show where she was probably only in two or three episodes. And I think in one of those she didn't have any speaking parts, but they're no longer there.
The weird thing is there is an episode coming up where Burns does come back as a guest star this time, and it's an episode where I think he's in it enough where you could say the plot almost centers around him. Oddly enough, you already mentioned that Kathy is missing, so is Albert. We do get Captain Grazer in a few scenes. So really oddly enough, this episode just has Matt, the Franciscos, and Moodri. Moodri of course, being a recurring character. And out of the Franciscos, I think Emily is in only one scene I think, if not maybe 2 at the most.
And I think Buck is in only two or three scenes. Yeah, Emily is in the first one where they talk about naming the baby and the memorial scene at least. But yeah, Buck got to at least go to the he got to go to the auction. Oh, that's right. Yeah. All right. So anything else for connecting spots? No, no, I think we're ready for the Albert Einstein Award. Yeah, yeah, not a great award this week. Yeah, OK. I think our only contestant is Heinrich Glass, the main bad guy, unless you consider toxic capitalism is the ultimate bad guy.
This took research and I'm still not sure. One Heinrich Glass 1896 to 8/19/84 was a famous Polish scout master. The other 1911 to 2003 is the likely candidate, an architect after the Anschloss. That's the German annexation of Austria in 38. He was sent to Dashaw. Dashaw, one of the longest running concentration camps. Then to another one called Buchenwald. His wife got him freed in 39 and during World War Two he actually helped the US by drawing a map of the concentration camp from his memory. There's a lot more if you're interested.
I recommend you look up Heinrich Glass, the architect at your local library if this is the intended implication. I think the writers were being a little too clever, but I guess he wins by default. Or we can just say nobody wins and y'all should be nicer next time. What? Do you think, yeah, I'm OK with him being the winner? I wasn't sure this was a reference to any real purse or anything, but it sounds like from your research he is. So that's, I mean, it's not a goofy name this week, but at the same time it is a reference to something.
So yeah, I'm OK with him getting, I mean, granted he's the only candidate too, but yeah, I'm OK with him getting it rather than just saying no award. OK, our winner is Heinrich Glass. But listeners, you guys be sure to write in, e-mail us and let us know because Todd has a policy of not looking these people up. If it's not obvious enough to tell us, then that's on them, not us. And I have a policy of digging as deeply and desperately as I can to try not to miss things. And one of us might be the smarter person.
I think it might be Todd. Nope. Not likely. I don't think so. Negatory good buddy. Never. Not in a million years. Absolutely not. No way, Jose. No chance, Lance. And yet negatory. And of course, my own personal favorite of all time, man falling off of a Cliff. No. So if you guys want us to just, you know, maybe don't try so hard on the old Albert Einstein award. You might have a point there because Heinrich Glass, there could be people, but writers, really, if this was intentional, maybe your history class was better than mine.
Shoot. So that takes us to I have to talk about this. OK so I've got 1 minor thing and this might be another product of this being, you know, a separate 9 episodes from the 1st 13 episodes, but they're doing something a little bit different with George. He is almost always in a suit and tie and this time around he's in a polo shirt and a casual jacket even while on the job in at least one scene. Now, granted, they do make a point to say that this is a Saturday, so I don't know if maybe he's got like weekday outfits for work and weekend outfits for work, but they are making Gorge a little bit more casual.
And sometimes while we're talking, I play the episode in the background. And this episode that we're reviewing is already done. It has moved on to the next episode. And there's a scene in that one where he's wearing a suit, but it's an Obama esque tan suit rather than the usual blue or Gray. And let me see, is he on the screen now? No, he's not on the screen at the moment. But I think there was one other scene in this episode where he might have been wearing something casual. So I think, I think George is easing up a little bit.
I had not noticed but you're totally right with the polos and they had always depicted them like that. I was noticing what Matt was wearing because he can be such a midlife crisis schlub in some episodes so when he looks like he's kind of presentable and dressing semi appropriately it actually surprised me. But yes the costumer seems to be nicer to Matt in this episode and trying to let George be. Maybe business casual, I don't know. Yeah. And Speaking of. Yeah, And Speaking of next episode in jackets, when we review next week's episode, pay attention to Matt's jacket in one second.
Oh. No. What's going on there? It can't be as bad as Lori Petty's and that one, but yes. OK. My first one is that when they find the alien skeleton at the beginning of the episode to kick off everything, it has a distinctly newcomer skull. And I feel like we've seen a lot of dead newcomers, but they've usually been in some varying state of decomposition, not a lot of just like clean skulls. So they went out of their way to make a nice differently shaped skull, which was interesting. It stood out right away.
All right. And one other thing I noticed was in that scene I talked about earlier where they're using some kind of weird laser to try to get into the box, I noticed there once in a while there was a weird sound effect. I thought, that sounds familiar. I'm not positive that they lifted it because this was Fox and so maybe they could have had access to 20th Century Fox sound effects at the time, but it sounded a lot like a Star Wars lightsaber being ignited. I'm. Going to take it apart. Do the police know you have?
It no, and they never will. As soon as we analyze it, I'm going to destroy it. Was there some kind of trouble you? Realize what we have here, how valuable this could be the. Power. You should never have brought it. Here I need the. Equipment. Let me do my work and I'll get rid of it. I wouldn't stand here, Howard. You have it and I never will. As soon as we analyze it, I'm. I wouldn't stand here, Howard. Dang it, that's worth Nick checking out again. I'm going to let you all know next week because you've picked my curiosity at the beginning.
George is taking care of the family because Susan is further along in pregnancy, although they don't say that's what's going on. But I'm guessing that's what's going on because he's normally got his act together and he's running around telling the kids that the house is all messed up and they need to be better. Oh, maybe it's that generational theme again. I don't know. The writers don't really land those very clearly. But one of the things he does is Buck is drinking milk from the carton. But newcomers don't drink milk.
They drink sour milk. And it didn't occur to me before, but of course, the kids don't drink sour milk because that's like liquor. So Buck is drinking something else from a carton because George says Buck don't drink bile from the carton. So apparently newcomers drink bile. What's bile, you say, besides like, having a bad taste in your mouth because you're angry? Well apparently the dictionary says it's a bitter greenish brown alkaline fluid that aids digestion and is secreted by the liver and stored in the gallbladder.
So the more you know. Apparently they have cartoons of bile in the fridge.
Yeah, I noticed the reference of the carton, but I must have missed it. It wasn't milk for some reason. I don't know if I wasn't paying enough attention, but I missed the bile reference. So that's good. Because I thought it was a type of thing where because it's an alien society and he is in his teens that maybe they allow teens to drink their version of alcohol sooner. I thought that's what it was about, but yeah, so I I must have missed that. When he is going off, when George is railing at the kids and he starts harping at Emily, who is the sweetest child in the world?
Buck. I like it because Buck says in Tanktonese, he tells his dad to calm down. It's a rake, Rake out rake. No. Yeah. Rakeba. Rakeba. Which and it says for lower like subtitles calm down. So is your teenage son seeing you go off on his little sister and he's like, dad calm down George. George tells Emily that she left her parabolic ear in the bathroom. Yeah, I still don't. I still don't get that. Yeah, we'll just have to guess. I have no idea. I know what a parabola is. It's kind of shaped like an ear, but something going on there, I think.
She tells her dad to chill out. Matt is wearing his baseball cap again in this episode for baseball fans. He's had it at least two times before, maybe 3. It's white with AB on it. I believe this is a Boston Red Sox hat. But we do find out in this episode that Matt grew up in. I mean, he's not from the West Coast where the action takes place. And he seems like a New York cop, but he's a Boston Red Sox fan. And he tells us in this episode that he's he grew up in Jersey. So yeah, the man is a contradiction, but what are you going to do?
Wait, was it Jersey or Detroit? Maybe you're right. Maybe you're right. Maybe he said Detroit and I just somehow heard Jersey. Yeah, you're right. I think you're right. You might be right too, but I for some reason Detroit is in my head and I thought I even remember reading that somewhere, but I, I could be wrong. Yeah. I've never been to the woods, but I've seen lots of pictures. You ever been to the woods? Wow. I was born in Detroit, but I've been to the woods. The shots we see of the tanked knees slave ship, The Grusa.
This is IMDb trivia. I remember to look this time that we see in the opening credits for the first time. You mentioned that the shots are taken from Buck's nightmare and the episode Little Lost Lamb, which wasn't one of our favorites. And well, I'm OK. It was, I mean, there was good stuff in there. That was the Moodri Ocean episode, but that was my first you can skip it episode. Matt is talking to George on the phone, and Buck across the room responds to what Matt is saying, like. And Matt's talking to George, and he's like, wait, how does Buck know that?
And Buck across the room is like, because I can hear you because apparent they have really good ears. Matt jokes about it like, oh, OK, bionic ears. So he's talking in George's ear. But Buck across the room knows everything he's saying, unlike the headset on the phone. Yeah, there. The inscription from the box burned into the desk. George says it's archaic tanktonese, but he thinks it says there is only one way between the clear eye and the pure hearts. All other ways are deaf, which is talking about how to open the box correctly.
But I didn't get that until I was writing out notes and I realized if you look at the box, there is a lighter colored jewel in the middle of the top of the front and there are these bright red rubyish jewels on the side. So the one in the top middle that we see later, I think Moodri or the elder woman, caress or turn gently to open the box. Right is the clear eye that the inscription references and the pure hearts, because the tank knees have two hearts, are the two rubies on the sides that you touch afterward and rotate or caress or something in order to open it?
So didn't get that until later. But yes, there was thinking behind all of that. He points out that Mudri threatened the victim and now he looks like a suspect. But Mudri and the other elders don't care. They don't care if anybody goes to jail or anything. They just keep yelling. You've got to get the box back. So the elders, Matt exasperatedly says, what is it? And the elders like look at each other and they nod before Moodri says it is the heart of our planet, the heart of Tankton. And as soon as he said it, listeners, as soon as he said that out loud, I knew in my heart, I just knew that we were going to find out the box was empty.
I knew we were going to have a shot. As soon as he said it's the heart of Tankton, at least one person was going to look in the box and there's going to be nothing in there that turns out there is a bunch of stuff in the box. Not even metaphorically, like really, but I knew there would be a shot.
When they are getting chased through the woods, they're chasing the hippie through the woods and Matt rolls down a hill and he's still afraid of nature, as I mentioned. I like that he's yelling at the hippie for making him chase him and rolling. And he's like, you know, for all I know, you know, you could have been that could have been Poison Ivy. And George says, well, it could be poison oak. Poison Ivy is indigenous to the East Coast. I didn't know that. That's good stuff, man. Go, George. So yes, obviously it's not Poison Ivy.
They're talking to the energy guys for the second or third time about the box. And Matt says he's talking to Fair, the human energy guy, and he's talking about how that guy's saying, you know, we would never have stolen it, blah, blah, blah. And Matt's like, well, you were willing to pay the guy who stole it. And he said Thayer says that's the extent of my situational ethics. And like that he didn't approve of it. I like that they're using the phrase situational ethics. And he's, he's clearly ticked off that the company's doing things it's not supposed to do.
So he's like, yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm not saying it makes sense. That's not my idea. And it's totally. I'll do a little bit of the wrong thing if it's from over here. Similar to my knowing the box would be empty. They ask the energy guys about their plans. I. Heard rumors of this box on the ship that it had tremendous power. Then always Death indicates those rumors might be true. Box could contain an unknown alternative source of energy, something cheap, environmentally safe we could duplicate on Earth.
When we get it, we're going to analyze that box piece by piece and find out the source of its power. Take it apart. Which will destroy the box? What about its cultural significance to our people? Cultural significance? The elders believe it's the heart of Tincton, that it must be preserved. The elders are a bunch of old fools. The elders preserved our identity. They kept us together on the ship. They're an embarrassment with their slave mentality. Voodoo, the heart of Tincton in a box. Do you believe that, detective?
Is that the kind of cultural heritage you really want to preserve? And I immediately knew that Heinrich Glass was going to be fried by the box as soon as he said that with their voodoo. Yes, that was it. I, I would like to just tell the listeners my last I have to mention this is about when you crispy fry a guy with the magic box. She's not really paying attention to these, but she consumes a lot of true crime and horror movies and she's jaded. She's seen it all a few times. But they did some excellent work on the 1st crispy body and even my wife was impressed.
She like looked up for what she was doing and said something similar to whoa. So that is a it was somehow super crispy but also shiny and look kind of gooey. And yeah, yeah, some real special effects went work, went into frying that first guy and that is it for me, for everything else I have to mention. All right. Well, if you're done with that, then I will move on to the new segment that I introduced 2 episodes ago and then totally forgot about last week, and that is Wheel of Press Kit. And in case you need a reminder, this is where I got for Christmas a gift from one of my best friends, a press kit from back in the day.
I don't know if they still do this kind of thing nowadays, and if they do, I wouldn't be surprised if it's electronic instead of on paper. But apparently back in the day they would send out these press kits to various outlets to let them know about a show that is coming. You know what time slot it's AM, what it's all about. And they did this really creative thing where they made this one page newspaper that is kind of like part real life telling you about the show, but part in universe kind of giving you information about the the Tanktonese and it's almost like a newspaper.
So anyway, I'm going to randomly spin the wheels, so to speak, to find out which little nugget of information from this press kit I'll give you.
Let me see. Number 20, actually. OK, This is from an article in something called the Daily Breeze from Friday, July 28th, 1989, and since it's a full article, I've already summarized it in my spreadsheet. According to the first full paragraph, Alienation would premiere 18th of September at 8:00 PM. That contradicts a different page from this press kit that said 9:00 PM. But to me that would make more sense because it was a 2 hour premiere and Fox is a 2 hour primetime network. I think even now it still is, but it definitely was at the time.
So it makes sense that's a 2 hour block would premiere at 8 instead of nine rather than, you know, at night. It means it would have to go past this normal 10:00 PM limit. It says it would be joining 21 Jump St. on Mondays, ushering in Fox's third night of programming. So apparently up until this point, Fox only had two nights. So this was very early in the Fox run. I did look up separately that Fox started in 1986, so this is only three years in. Let me see. Lower down another paragraph, it says that Kenneth Johnson almost did not take the project because he didn't want to be typecast after helming the 1983 V miniseries.
And he also created the Bionic Woman and wrote the original pilot for The Incredible Hulk. And let me spin again.
Okay, number six. Okay, so this is from the very first page of the press kit. It's the Alien Times, which is that thing I just described a minute ago where it's kind of like partly in universe. Okay, so this is about a proposition that would lead to the National right of newcomers to vote. And it's not that long article, so I'll just read the whole thing. And oddly enough, this is written by DC Washington because, you know, the Tingtonese have interesting names. So this reporter is named DC Washington.
According to the latest Gallup poll, 54% of U.S. citizens are in favor of passing Proposition 16, giving newcomers the right to vote. This positive swing supporting newcomer voting rights came after the surprise discovery Wednesday that the insect like creature attacking innocent victims in Los Angeles was merely A hoax concocted by radical purists. So I'm stopping reading the article now for a second. This is of course referring to the pilot episode where there was a monster and people were starting to think that the tank Deniz turned into these monsters.
OK, so going back to the article speculated by police to be a malicious plot against newcomers, the incident led to the arrest of two Caucasian males aged 35 and 42. While dressed in a Velcro insect like costume, the two suspects allegedly terrorized and sprayed acid on several newcomers as well as photojournalist Bill Burns, whose column appears in a local tabloid. Detective Matthew Sykes, who assisted in apprehending the suspect, said I knew do something was suspicious, do something suspicious was up when I grabbed for the creature and got back a fistful of Velcro.
No charges have been filed as of yet, and police are withholding the suspects names until a complete investigation is made. So that's another neat little nugget where, you know, they could have just said this show is premiering so and so, and it's starring so and so. But to actually be creative enough to do these little articles in universe, I thought was kind of neat, yeah. And I mean it. It's with the bug creature like making that real. I I love in universe. I think that's awesome. And something I also forgot about last time was that as a second Christmas present from the same friend, I also got the Unofficial Companion to Alien Nation, which is one of those books that people used to write, you know, unofficial companions to, to various TV shows.
And there is one for this show and for this episode, I have a few bullet points. Story editor Stephen Mitchell said the one thing he would change about the episode is exploring further what happens when the box falls in the wrong hands. And you know, that was a little bit vague In this one, like you said, it's eventually shown. It's kind of demonstrated that you have to rub 1 jewel a certain way and then the other two jewels a certain way. But I think they wanted to explore further what would happen to somebody.
I just got it and just randomly opened up. Yes, we see them fried, but I guess they would have explored how and why. Let me see. Mitchell also hit it at a bit of self censorship that went on regarding science fiction concepts. And I'm guessing from that, that explains what we've talked about, how a lot of these episodes tend to have police work as a framing device and that tends to kind of bury the science fiction elements a little bit more. He said that despite self censorship, Mitchell admitted that the network never rejected any scripts.
Gary Graham said he enjoyed this episode because he got to work with a sweet kid, and the exact quote in his paragraph described the kid as a sweetie. And then Eric Pierpoint said that the theme of the episode was preserving culture versus exploiting culture. And then this is a quote from him for the character George's going to Tink Don was both uplifting and devastating at the same time. With the peace he's found on Earth, he's moving. He's moving forward and taking his family with him. End Quote.
Pierrepoint also talked about the challenge of acting during the tink ton scene since it was done with blue screen and he couldn't see what George was seeing. So that's a little bit from the Unofficial Companion. That's awesome. Yeah. Blue screen in 1990. I mean, I guess Star Trek The Next Generation was doing a bunch of it with the holodeck for in between shots and things disappearing, but still, yeah, it was pretty cool. I'm easily impressed too. But yeah, I think that scene by itself, I mean, I don't want people to give it away because even 30-40 years later, I think it's really a cool surprise sort of thing to come across at the end of the episode is a payoff, but that was done really well.
That's nice. All right, let me see anything else before we move on to scores. I think we're ready for score. My score is probably not a huge surprise because I've described this episode as good but not that good, and there was nothing terrible but nothing super impressive either. So it gets a respective kind of middle of the road B. Yeah, yeah, I can understand that. I I always give an STA score for how many Star Trek alumni are in this and we had a base score of five because in addition to Matt, George and Susan, we had Captain Grazer and Uncle Moodri.
We also had Heinrich Glass, Scott Jayek I mentioned and the dad from Erie, Indiana, Francis doing so, both the energy guys essentially, which gives us a Star Trek alumni score of seven. I think the highest we've ever gotten is 9, so 7 is pretty great. I also rate these episodes on a watch skip basis because not everybody has to see everything in order, at least the first time or the first time they revisit it like I do. So if you are just hitting the highlights and I really, really think you need to watch this episode.
I think it's really important for the ritual, the arc that goes through, not just Moodri's, but I feel like this is sort of the end of Moodri's and Buck's arc in a way, because they've been together since they like first glanced at each other in that first episode where Moodri showed up. And like I mentioned before, they pulled this emotional depth out between Moodri, Buck and George. It was really heavy and it was really well done, I think. So I'll tell you to watch any episodes with cool rituals.
And this has this memorial service, which was right up there for me with weddings. It's healthy to see how other people celebrate big stuff and how they mourn. And you need to see the payoff with the box you you need to see what tanked on looks like. So apparently that's going to come up later. So yes, I think this is definitely a watch it episode, so. Yep, I would agree. I think that that's about it for today listeners coming up next time on alienating ourselves, Nick and Todd Explorer episode 15 Eyewitness News.
The IMDb summary says that the line between reality and fantasy blurs when a crossed video phone line, let's say boardroom of executives see a sex actress attacked. And this sounds like it must have been sweeps week. Meanwhile, George becomes swept up in celebrity when a news crew does a week long special on him. Gosh, I hope his ego doesn't get out of hand, forcing him to ultimately learn a lesson about humility and video calls. It's like the future. Find out what happens with this board meeting and how far producers are going to take this episode when you tune in with us next week on alienating ourselves.
I continue to be Nick. I'm Todd. Thank you for joining us. We'd love to see some reviews wherever you listen to podcasts. If you love us, like us, or can barely tolerate us, please give us five stars. If you couldn't stand the idea of being our Big Brother or big sister, please give us four stars. If you give us three stars or lower, you 2 will be fried to a crisp the next time you look into a box. As always, may all your milk be as fresh or as sour as you prefer it to be. And the next time you do have to open a box, be sure to open it the right way.
It probably won't fry you to a crisp like the box in this this episode, but you could get a splinter or a bad paper cut. Have a great week. Good night everybody.
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