#023 - Alien Nation 1.17 "Real Men"
She's finally here! Little Vessna Francisco has arrived. The conception, gestation, and...pod transferral...of this alien baby has provided the show "Alien Nation" with some of its best storylines, quirkiest moments, and some of the wildest sci-fi imagery. And, her birth is no different. In this episode, "Real Men," George's self-confidence is challenged by the last days of his pregnancy. A job-related tussle triggers the baby early, but does everything go according to plan, and does Matt have to step up to do a hard thing in the moment?
- How good was this episode and did one or both co-hosts hope it would have been even better?
- What mix of traits & emotions did Eric Pierpoint convey in this episode as an insecurely pregnant (alien) man?
- What did Nick say was a the thesis statement this episode was trying to convey?
- How much did we learn in this week's episode about pregnancy in Tenctonese men?
- What did Nick's wife think about the scene of a pregnant male going into labor?
- Why does Todd give Matt some credit for doing something in the episode he doesn't think he could do himself?
- And, what nitpicks did the co-hosts have about Tenctonese serums, people from Matt's past, the amount of time we got to see George pregnant, and the appearance of the baby?
Listen now for the answer to these and other laboring questions as we buff up into..."Real Men."
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Royalty-free music used in this episode comes from Pixabay.com.
Humans and aliens working together.
I really want to dig more into their culture.
That's a mirror up to humanity. Social commentary through
allegorical storytelling. Wild, angry old man opinions.
Well, you just can't do all the things you're used to doing.
Things tend to upset you more. Don't tell me how I feel.
You make it sound as though I'm some weak compass female,
George. If you had your lead supplements
today, the. Poor guy, you know he's doing
his best. Back pain, wall and ankles
ringing in his ear, frequent urination and emotional
outbursts. So then he grabs George and I'm
like, no. Albert, these are Halloween
decorations. I think colorful.
It's a baby shower and and the flamingos are supposed to be
storks. I thought these were prettier.
Hey, what are you talking about? Like guy from out of that stuff.
I don't care about that. Whatever.
Napkins, whatever. Hey.
Lame. Put on this outfit.
Come on. Be a cop for a seat.
Really. You guys?
Yeah, go ahead. What is the?
Point of this Who is this for? That is one ugly baby.
You're definitely a terrible person.
Horribly offended, so these are dark times indeed.
George Francesco is one of my all time favorite characters.
The show is going to go to places that I really enjoy.
Sour milk is a good thing to the tank the knees.
Stay tuned listeners. Wheel of press kit.
Yikes, Sykes. We're both fans of Star Trek.
Watching Alien Nation and we enjoy.
It I am one of your hosts, Todd, this is Nick.
This is the Alienating Ourselves podcast.
Greetings humans and newcomers and welcome back to Alienating
Ourselves, the podcast where we examine sci-fi entertainment
with a focus on aliens and the humans that stick their whole
hand in the lean pod flap when that's the only way to get the
baby out. I am one of your hosts, Todd.
Something that happens in the last few minutes of this episode
justifies my personal policy of always wearing AT shirt under a
sweatshirt or even under a button up shirt.
Basically, I never leave the house without 2 layers, and
joining me, as always, is a guy who might be more secure in his
manhood than I am. It's Nick.
Nick, how's it going? It's going really well.
Yeah. On a, in a competition of more
secure, I'm usually going to lose.
I I think I have one pink T-shirt just in case someone
does a random Komen Day thing. But the gentleman who show up in
the collared Tees, I'm like, gosh, you're confident?
I like show tunes too much, honestly.
So yeah, questioning things. Let's get into it.
Today we're looking at Alienation's 17th episode, Real
Men, which originally aired on Monday night, February 19th,
1990. We're going to talk a little
today about what makes a man a man and how much that's totally
made-up and bogus based on what society says.
This episode was directed by John McPherson and written by
Diane Froloff and Andrew Schneider, who are all three
kind of an experienced dream team for production on this
show. It feels like Diane and Andrew
are in the background producing and advising on every episode
and are kind of like showrunners with Kenneth Johnson.
George is starting his second trimester, although the whole
thing may only take 6 to 9 weeks, and it's making him Moody
and sensitive. Just when Matt's already
self-conscious about having a pregnant man as his police
partner, his skeezy friend Nick from Chicago visits to hit on
Kathy and make fun of everything, so Matt's even more
insecure than usual. He gets to talking to George
about what makes a man a man, and they both get so insecure
that they start stupidly posturing.
While all this is going on, gym dudes are feeling inadequate
compared to stronger newcomer men, so they start taking
dangerous St. steroids. Albert is throwing Georgia baby
shower, Susan's a busy breadwinner, and it all comes to
a head. So that's just what's going on
in today's episode. What was your first response to
this episode, Todd? Well it's definitely a great
episode and I would say it's still no matter what one of the
series best episodes, but I am just a little bit disappointed
that it wasn't even better. I've been kind of reserving some
of my higher, somewhat high scores, like I haven't given out
but one or two A's and I still haven't hit the A+ yet because I
keep thinking that that A plus and more A's are ahead.
And this was one of the episodes that I thought would get there
and a little bit of spoiler for my grade at the end, but it
didn't quite make it. And again, still one of the best
episodes. But I think it is demonstrating
1 consistent little issue I have with the show is that I
absolutely love certain iconic scenes, and obviously I love the
character of George Francisco. But it's just week after week.
Sometimes the cop stuff gets in the way.
And sadly this episode, as good as it still is, is an example of
that problem. So how about you?
Well, the parts with Kathy and Matt and Matt's obnoxious friend
made me incredibly uncomfortable, but I think I
liked everything else. Some of this episode was
extremely dated with the bodybuilders at the gym.
I'm going to mention that a few times.
But some was super progressive, even for today, and that was
great. And like last week's episode, I
think the reason you thought this was going to get an A is
just because the last 10 minutes are ridiculously strong.
Maybe even the last five minutes, it's just shockingly
good. So you're like, wow.
And the rest was, you know, OK. So this is my general take on
it. We can start with our sour milk,
our positives. What's your first positive,
Todd? OK, and it's going to be kind of
an obvious one, but Eric Pierpoint's performance as
George Francisco is amazing, as usual.
And this time we get to see yet another side of George, and this
time is kind of a combination of upset and vulnerable, but at the
same time kind of funny. And in fact, I'll have a little
bit more to say about this later when I do my little segment
where I take some information from the unofficial companion to
Alienation, the one of the a book that I got for Christmas.
And apparently that was a little bit of an issue in the writers
room too. Just how far to take the the
humor and whether they were going too far.
Kind of like making fun of pregnancy in a way.
But still, I love the overall performance and Eric Fairpoint
continues to deliver. Well, in my first one is pretty
much the same thing. It's he gets to be a Moody,
emotional pregnant man. And yeah, this could be played
for laughs, and I guess it is sort of, but maybe it's because
of the gravitas he's bringing to it.
Most of it isn't funny. You're just empathizing because
he's a really good actor. So he's crying at work and we're
I'm not chuckling at that. I'm like, oh, you poor man.
And Matt's of course, so uncomfortable.
But so he has this scene on the couch at home and he's he's
lying lying down on the couch at home trying to read a magazine.
Well, now he can't reach his plate of snacks.
So he gets up in a huff with his pregnant tummy, throws his
magazine and gets his plate of snacks.
He's eating it off his belly like an Otter.
And now he can't reach his magazine and he and he calls
Buck and I do love they found something to do with Buck.
So once it's family related, once it's baby related, Buck is
flourishing. He is thriving.
So he runs down the stairs and crouches next to his dad.
What is it dad? Do you need something?
Dad? Do you want Vaseline for your
frog legs? He says excitedly.
George asks for the magazine and he's like, fine dad, you know,
he's just so excited for his dad having a baby.
But Susan comes in and a sort of Mr. Mom sequence where she's
working hard while he's at home putting his feet up.
She's been out late. George is mumbling about how
good time for the family, You know, she's having a blast in
her professional life. And she comes in the door and he
immediately asks her if she'll sit down and rub his feet.
And she has that look on her face, like, are you kidding me?
Like, I just got out the door. But she tells him that, you
know, I forget sometimes that you're not really yourself right
now. You're, you're a little bit more
needy. You're a little bit more.
And he gets horribly offended. Aren't.
They at the office. No, it was wonderful.
I couldn't have asked for a better day.
You're never going to believe why it didn't.
With one of the most influential humans in the United States,
Yes. Buck told me Nemo, my feet hurt.
Could you massage them? Of course, George, I'm sorry I
get so caught up with work I forget that you've changed.
Changed but. It's not your fault, you're just
more dependent, more needy right now.
Needy. Well, you just can't do all the
things you're used to doing. Things tend to upset you more.
Don't. Tell me how I feel.
You make it sound as though I'm some weak, helpless female.
Females aren't weak and helpless, George, if I.
Wanted I could fall off a Cliff and sew myself up.
George. If you had your lead supplements
today. This is just a snapshot of like,
what Eric Pierpoint gets to do in the episode.
And it's just adorable. And that whole sequence is
probably 3 minutes, but it's, it's a lot of things like that
that's just, yeah, it could be, I guess there could be people
watching it laughing. But I'm just like that poor guy,
you know, He's doing his best. Well, actually, I'm so glad that
you brought up everything that you just did, because that was
another positive I had for the episode that I actually kind of
forgot to put in my notes. That was a laugh out loud
chuckle moment when he he did the whole thing with the
magazine and the food and he puts down 1 to get the other.
And so he's he's still not a position to get up and has that
asked, but that that was genuinely funny.
So I did enjoy that. So I'm glad that you caught it
because I forgot to put in my notes.
But my next positive is about Matt and Kathy.
It is nice that Matt finally tells Kathy he likes her.
I mean, when they had the whole mutual admission that they kind
of undress each other with their eyes and previous episode, I
mean, in a way that was an admission, but that was more
just the superficial physical side that finally tells Kathy
that he likes her. And granted, that is a simple
statement. It kind of sounds almost middle
school the way he says it. But to be fair, it is clear and
more straightforward communication than we sometimes
get from Sykes. And that's really all he needs
to say. And it is a next step and a big
step that we've been waiting for.
And I think in in previous episodes where we've seen hints
at it, it's like Matt is trying to deny it.
And this is a big step in. He's not trying to deny it
anymore because not only does he actually admit it to her, but
then he does get jealous when his friend dates Kathy one
night. And I think he even kind of
admits it to George. So it's it even Matt is
realizing he can't hide this anymore.
And so this is a big development, even if the words
behind it are simple. Yeah, I I can't think of any
examples off the top of my head, but the thing where the man is
not going to admit that he has feelings for somebody.
It might be the woman to the lady character might that
finally they're just so uncomfortable.
Like we never promised we were going steady or exclusivity, but
it's really making me clearly grumpy that you are hanging out
with this other person as like a a storytelling thing.
Yes, that was that was at least, you know, at least we had some
forward progress. But yes, that was the was that
the very last second of the whole episode?
I think it was like they got it in under the.
Wire. Yeah, it was, yeah.
So, yeah, barely. So the thesis of this episode
and I, I do love it when an episode has a thesis.
They have the writers have some sort of idea that they're coming
back to. And the thesis of this episode
is by being so fixated on gender identity and chasing a fake
version of gender pushed by society, that you actually lose
sight of your own gender identity.
And we're lucky enough to live in a time when men and women are
a little less stigmatized for wanting to exist in spaces
previously reserved for the other gender.
George and Matt act overly macho at parts in this episode, which
we can see makes their lives more difficult, and in the end
they seem to embrace who they are.
And for Matt, that means that he likes knitting.
Now, I like knitting and I mean, I'll I'll tell the story about
knitting later if it's conducive, but I like that Matt
learns to knit from his uncle Jack, who he found out about in
episode 8, Contact. Matt hates his dad, and he saw
his now deceased Uncle Jack as a real father figure.
And the idea that Uncle Jack was a sailor, which our society does
designate as one of the most manly kinds of men a lot of the
time, maybe too manly. And then Uncle Jack was the one
who taught him to knit because sailors would have skill sets
like that. It kind of just goes to show how
artificial our concepts of masculinity are.
So by the end, Matt is like, you know what?
Yeah, I like to knit, and I'm not ashamed of it.
And it's still, by our society standards, kind of odd to see
him knit. But, yeah, George is like, in
his culture, there's all these things that he can enjoy with
pregnancy, and he's not enjoying them because he's trying to act
macho. And he says it toward the end,
like, I'm not even enjoying my pregnancy.
So yeah, that was cool that they had a thesis and they kind of
kept coming back to it. And it extends to the actual
crime spree thing going on. Yeah.
Yeah, I like it when you apply the idea of a thesis to
episodes, kind of implying that certain episodes have a certain
point or, you know, just something that they're trying to
prove and that there is, you know, a basis behind the
episode. You know, I won't give it away,
but there's another TV show that we might be talking about soon.
I don't know, we need to kind of finalize plans on that.
But if we do talk about it, it's ATV show that's on now that
sometimes I watch. And I'm like, what is the point
of this? Who is this for?
Why? Why am I watching this?
And so that is a show that sometimes I don't think really
has a thesis. And so I'm glad that this show
has a thesis. And then just one totally random
observation. We're talk about knitting socks.
That reminds me of a scene in an episode of Stargate Universe
where Colonel Young is knitting some socks.
Now, granted, they're stuck on a ship light years away from home,
and so they're limited on supplies, so it's not like he
could. He has backup socks.
So that's part of the reason it's necessity.
But is it? It is interesting to see a
military person have that skill and it not even be a big deal.
So let me see. Sometimes I save these kind of
concepts for the miscellaneous section, but sometimes I move
them to positive. And that is the tinctonies,
biology and culture that we get in an episode.
And I've got 5 bullet points, but I'm betting that I missed
one or two. So I'll do a few and then you
might want to take a turn. So let me see.
George is only in phase one of his pregnancy and then in the
middle of the episode, he almost immediately goes to phase two.
But I'm not sure that they imply exactly how many phases they're
supposed to be. They say in one part of the
episode that he has three weeks to go.
Then I think later he mentions to somebody that it's 2 1/2.
So I don't know if when they said three if they were rounding
up or whatever, but it I get the impression that maybe George's
time is of being pregnant is definitely less than a human
woman's. Which makes sense to a certain
degree because Susan had to carry the pod first for a while
before George got it. But still, I can't help but
wonder how long did is each person in a pair supposed to
have it? George has back pain, swollen
ankles, ringing in his ear, frequent urination and emotional
outbursts. And some, if not all of those
actually mirror a woman's symptoms during pregnancy, if I
understand correctly. And then pregnant.
Think the knees. Men have something called
ahavacada, I think. And of course, Matt
mispronounces it as Avocado, but it has something to do with how
high the baby is in the pouch. So those are just a few things.
I got a couple more, but I thought I'd let you take a turn
in case you have something in this category too.
So yeah, the Heffa cotta just rose.
So I think that's kind of like in our anatomy when a pregnant
woman will say that the baby has dropped, so it like moves into a
lower position and it actually takes some pressure off of, I
think maybe your bladder, but it's like you're already in one
kind of discomfort and now it's harder to breathe.
No, it takes pressure off your diaphragm so you can breathe
better. But now the baby tends to be
dancing around on your bladder, but it's like the the actual
baby belly might seem a little lower or something.
So a newcomer men, it's the opposite.
And the Hepacotta, your Hepacotta just rose.
So the the pod actually moves up and like even Matt is like, Hey,
is that higher? So yeah, I think your timeline
is pretty accurate. I think when the episode starts,
his HEPA Cotta hasn't rose yet, so he's not in his last stage.
So he thinks he has three weeks left.
And when it does rise, now he's in that final stage and he has 2
1/2 weeks left supposedly before it naturally ends.
But yes, that's I did. Like George says that newcomer
men, some of them don't even consider themselves fully a man
until they have a baby, which just.
Matt was just floored by that. He's just, like, staring off
into space. Susan asked George if he's had
his lead supplements today. If any of you don't know
listers, we've discovered the hard way that lead is not great
for humans. So yeah, that's another unique
Physiology thing. I think that's all I have.
That's physiological, but yeah, OK.
What's your Part 2? Yeah.
I like how this show kind of takes the opposite of what's
good or bad for a human and says it is bad or good for for
Tanktonese, kind of the way we've already found out that
they need a lot of UV radiation and of course is bad for us and
they need lead and that's bad for us.
And then what was the other thing I just thought of?
Oh, there's another example and I I lost it.
But yeah, it's basically the oh, well, actually we were talking,
you were talking about the position, the baby and how for a
woman it drops, but for a tinctonies man it rises.
So yeah, it's kind of the the equal but opposite reaction for
tinctonies. Yeah.
George calls Susan Nemu more than once in the episode.
Now Graham. Both times are pretty close
together, but I like that that happened because it means I'm
not crazy. I wasn't imagining things when
in a previous episode I thought he called her Nemu because she
calls him Nemu quite a bit. And so this really does confirm
that it is a term of endearment that can apply to both genders.
And then lastly, one more thing about the pregnancy.
I think these baby can get breached and need manual help to
turn around just like some human babies do.
And I kind of implied that some during my my as usual, weird
intro. So a man's pouch opens upward.
And so Matt had to stick his whole hand in to turn Vestna
around. And so thank goodness he was
there, because. Even if George could have done
it, he passed out at that moment.
They owe a lot to Matt. As much as he might be annoying
sometimes and screw up sometimes and and maybe even still be a
little bit prejudice, at least he's, you know, steps up and
does what he has to in the in a dire moment.
That whole breach thing, I think.
So that's a good segue for one of mine.
And that's just to talk about the end and what I was saying
about roles and how we see roles.
So it just, it gets me how shocking this episode is in how
brave it is with pushing some boundaries.
And the way that it ends is just great.
So in the last scene when George goes into labor early like you
said because they're having the struggle in the gym, it really
made me nervous because the guy who's going after them is super
popped up on steroids and he literally grabs Matt and punches
him in the stomach like 3 or 4 times in a row.
So then he grabs George and I'm like no, but luckily he just
decided to choke George. I was I was legitimately worried
about him just starting to his like punching in the stomach was
his thing. George says the baby is cold
after it comes out and Matt rips off his shirt immediately.
Gary Graham does not take off his shirt as often as William
Shatner does in the original Star Trek.
It's come off a few times, but mostly he keeps his shirt on.
So this is a rare thing for it to be like some eye candy for
the ladies, I guess if you like Gary Graham.
But George says the baby's cold. Matt rips off his shirt and
George says the baby needs the warmth of two bodies and the
mother isn't there. So Matt, he essentially is
telling him to cuddle close. And Matt, who is always like,
part of his job in the show is to mug and make make like faces.
Like what's going on now. He doesn't even hesitate.
So this episode of a show made in 1990 ends with these two
grown men, the human guy, shirtless.
He's got a nice hairy man chest holding the pregnant man and the
baby on the floor on a mat in a gym, which just.
Oh my gosh, it's so the redhead that I live with.
She, though, obviously freaked out by the delivery scene, which
is pretty visceral. She admitted to me the next day
that she understands the show's appeal now and that I'm right,
that it's good. Oh, OK.
Yeah. And she also thinks that she
sees maybe why it got cancelled. That scene, you know, you got to
swing for the fences. And I think I said the same
thing about the end of the last episode that it's you can play
it safe to try and stay on the air or you can do stuff that
people are going to talk about. And they went but talk about.
So, you know, having a a tentacle be cuddled in the last
episode and having the this man reach into another man's
kangaroo pouch and move a baby around.
So it's not breach in this episode is plenty to freak
people out. But in 1990, I swear to y'all
shirtless man holding another man, be it platonically had to
have horrified some producers. They must have.
I don't know what happened. But yes, very proud of them for
going for it. If you put this on TV today, you
would hear the word agenda so fast.
But yeah, that was that was amazing.
I'm very impressed. Yeah, and when looking at the
entry of it in that book, The Unofficial Guide to Alienation,
I'm really surprised they didn't talk more about that because
that's one of the things I talked about in the previous
episode about how all the producers, in their own unique
ways were really freaked out by how controversial the pod
transfer was. But I don't think they really
said too totally much, if anything, about the the the
shirtless scene. And so apparently that either
did not freak them out as much or didn't freak the executives
out as much. And for all the grief that I
give Matt, I have to admit he might be a better man than I am
in that part. Because it might be one thing
for me to take off my shirt to help warm up the baby or to lie.
But beside, you know, the man in a platonic way.
I don't know if I could do both. You know, I could take the shirt
off and put it around the baby. And then somebody said, well,
you need to lie next to us. I'm like, OK, fine.
But I'm putting my shirt back on.
You know, I got to do one or the other.
I don't know if I can do both. So maybe I'm not a good person.
I mean, honestly, once you've, once you've reached into
somebody's stomach with your bare hand, I don't know.
I mean, Matt was just, yeah, he was a award-winning godfather in
this episode. So yes, that was great.
So I do not have Matt's buddy in my saltwater section of things
that I did not like. But this is one of the most
caricature negative characters the show has had so far.
We've had some pretty silly ones, but this guy takes the
cake as like the, hey, what are you talking about?
Like guy from out of town, he's all macho at all high 5.
And hey, you're a you're a cop, right?
Who loves you, baby. You talking to me?
He's just like quoting junk. But after they go through
everything, Nick from out of town actually gets to like, look
at Matt after Matt is saying, you know, why are you going out
with this girl who's my neighbor?
Of course it bothers me. And suddenly he becomes like a
human being instead of a ridiculous cartoon character.
And he's just like, you know, why are you telling me?
Why don't you tell me like Kathy, you know, tell her, man.
You know, it's like, oh, OK, suddenly you're a normal human
being. You can just talk.
So that was actually one of my positives is that, dear heaven,
the guy's just like, I'm ridiculous.
And even I think you should probably tell her you like her.
All right, Well, anything else for sour milk?
So about roles, Albert asks Matt multiple times for help and
insight with the baby shower for George.
I'm doing this for the baby shower.
I'm doing that for the baby. And Matt is like, I don't care,
man. That stuff.
I don't care about that. Whatever, napkins, whatever.
So Albert picks decorations from Halloween and other completely
inappropriate themes because he thinks they're pretty like
flamingos instead of storks. And this is ironic because
Albert has a great time and everybody at the party seems to
have a great time. But Matt is frustrated because
clearly he does care how you do a baby shower.
He just didn't want to say anything because he's, it's so
obvious. But I'm man, I don't care about
that kind of junk. And then he's get there and he's
like, you're doing this wrong. These colors are not right.
Albert, these are Halloween decorations, aren't?
They colorful. It's a baby shower and and the
flamingos are supposed to be storks.
I thought these were prettier, so that was a nice continuing.
I'm ready for salt water. Yeah.
I like how when they're discussing the color scheme and
George's like, you know, I really like beige.
And he and Albert both go beige. Who likes beige?
But again, the the tanks and knees are opposite from us.
So yeah, of course they're going to love beige.
All right, So when it comes to salt water, let me see my first
one. Another obvious one.
Matt is back to being a caveman with the commentary about
everything that makes the tank to knees different.
He did such a good job and I think it was just the previous
episode being supportive and intrigued by the pod transfer.
And now he's back to complaining about George's pregnancy and
back to being embarrassed about his partner being pregnant.
And it's just like, I don't, I don't know, it's when is Matt
going to figure it out? It's like, read the room.
They're different. Get over it and brace it and and
stop comparing and say, oh, you're, you're so different.
Oh, but yes, they're different. Did you not figure that out by
now? So yeah, that was kind of
frustrating. But, you know, not that
different from my complaints in other episodes.
Yeah, it does sound like George broke down in the I don't know,
whatever the locker room, they're changing into something
or putting on their guns. I have no idea what they do in
there since they wear their clothes from home, but yeah,
it's like, George, you broke down the locker room.
You're going to be OK. Yes.
So we had a previous episode where you could use bits of
newcomer to make humans younger. So I did not like that in this
episode, you could use bits of newcomer to make humans
stronger. I, I don't want them to use bits
of newcomer to get any more superpowers.
In fact, in our society we do have this other thing we do
where you have a fad that's not based on science at all.
And I would have liked it if you just had a steroid.
There are plenty of those. And this was being sold as
though it was better because it had newcomer bits in it.
And maybe it does have newcomer bits in it, but they just have a
throwaway line saying no one has proven the newcomer bits do
anything. It's just a fad.
It's like adding rhino horn to something to increase virility.
So I would like them to have done that.
But since they didn't, newcomer bits do increase your muscle
mass, they do give you pretty good superhuman strength.
And I just, I'm, I'm putting my foot down about any more
newcomer bits giving any more abilities.
I really hope they don't do that.
Yeah. It would, it would be good if
they explore other options. Yeah.
And Speaking of that, that's kind of in tune with my next
bullet point is that this is at least the third time that we
have had a storyline of an old friend or partner of Matt coming
back to disrupt life in some way.
And it usually has something to do with Tank Deniz.
And in fact, you just talked about one.
It was the something like second or third episode where we meet
an old friend of Matt and he's doing the stuff with the Tank
Deniz DNA. Then there was another one where
we we see his old partner and his partner, you know, does some
shady stuff in the episode that Scott kind of screws over
George. And when was that episode?
The previous episode. So it's like they keep going to
the well with, you know, people from Matt's past not being very
good. Oh, and that's right.
I thought of another one this morning.
Lump it in there. His own daughter when when she
comes in the picture, that's from Matt's past and she's kind
of annoying too. It's like as much crap as we
give Matt, I'm starting to get the picture that basically
everybody from his past sucks and maybe that's why he sucks by
association. I can't have a wonder if Matt
we're around better people if he would be a better person.
So maybe it's not entirely his fault.
Nevertheless, I do think they they're going to the well a
little too often with people from his past being bad or
annoying or or evil or or just misguided in some way, and
especially when the last time we had it was last week.
Yeah, I, I really wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt,
and I think I'm on Matt's side more than you are.
But unfortunately, with the Big Brother Little Brother episode,
we had some strong anecdotal evidence that Matt is a garbage
father. And.
That's not all his ex wife's fault.
They give us plenty of cause to think it was his ex wife's fault
and he was the nice normal 1 and she was terrible.
No no, we saw him with a kid after that.
It's like jeez man he's learning to be his best self and he was
not that before. So I had had this conversation
with you before about how in the episode that might have been the
last one, the one where the guy had the ridiculous fake mustache
in the Barber chair. Oh yeah, yeah, but.
He had a gun and a shoulder harness, like we've seen all the
cops do in these modern shows. And it occurred to me that I, I
kind of wondered aloud, Are bad guys the only ones who use
shoulder harnesses in this universe?
So in this episode, Blink and you miss it, But I caught a
moment where George did exactly what I suspected this whole
time. And we can see him pull out his
holstered gun and slide it into his jacket pocket.
So that is how he's been carrying his guns the whole
time. He just puts that holster in his
suit jacket pocket. Yay.
Oh well, see, I thought that he had been wearing a holster the
whole time, but that they were emphasizing this time that
because of his bigger belly, he couldn't wear the holster in the
usual place. Oh, I like your explanation.
That's what they were so much better.
They were emphasized I. Hope that's it.
Yeah, that's. That's much better than what
I've got. So we've got a shot.
Showrunners, give us one chance. You've got a few episodes left,
a little tiny moment of George using a shoulder holster or
you're going to show us him slipping into a jacket pocket
one more time when he's not pregnant.
We will find out, yes. Maybe by the time of the second
or third movie, they'll both be moving forward in time and
police procedurals and they'll both be using shoulder straps
for their guns. But yeah, I have one more
negative. Do you have any more negatives?
Yeah. I've got 2GO.
Ahead, do what? OK, so in general, I'm just
disappointed that we did not get to see more of George actually
being pregnant. I mean, he got the pod just last
week and so it seems pretty soon for him to be going into labor.
I would like to have seen more of him.
Just you don't having to deal with day-to-day life being
pregnant. It seemed like they kind of
rushed that. I mean, they're trying to
emphasize that again, the tanked knees are so different than us
because the men can be pregnant. But it almost makes us forget
that. Susan still carried the pod for
quite a while, but that was for several episodes.
So in a way she still went longer.
And even if there was like a time jump in between episodes,
well, still, it was a time jump between episodes off camera.
I want to see more on screen time with George being pregnant.
And I can't help but wonder if this show had lasted four or
five seasons like it should have, would we have seen a a
fourth child and George being pregnant again?
And maybe they would have done it different the the second time
around. So yeah, I I wish we had seen
more of what we saw this Week 1. Of the strengths of the show, at
least with the procedural Cop stuff, has been that they
haven't made things linger. So if they have a turning point,
they tend to just go ahead and do it.
I I agreed with you. I noticed that in my child brain
from my iffy memories of these. I just.
I assumed that George was pregnant for two or three
episodes and Nope, no, it was a an afternoon.
Kind of yeah. So we have a sort of showdown in
the gym because our junkie steroid user, this big brick of
a dude who's clearly a real life bodybuilder because he has a
thick accent, his girlfriend tells us that he's essentially
just started living at the gym, not as a metaphor, just really
living at the gym. And so they go to the gym.
Now, I just wanted to point out there is no emergency hostage
situation. There's no reason that the two
police detectives, one of them pregnant, pursue the superhuman
roid rage junkie into the gym with the lights off.
The lights go out and they're like, we better just keep going.
So I'm thinking protocol suggests they step out front
into the light, wait for backup. One of them goes around to the
back door, gun drawn. I mean, it's just, but no, we
have to find a junkie alone in the dark at an empty building
right away. And that's, that's what they're
there to do. So yes, I mean, I he has just
killed somebody, but that guy's already dead.
No, that guy's not dead either. They have less dead people in
these episodes. I think that guy might be in a
coma. It was some artificial tension
there that me and my pregnant partner have to find this dude
in the dark and he's hopped up on steroids.
Yeah, and they even showed George going over and trying to
flip the lights, but they won't come on.
So that I guess somebody turn them off at the circuit breaker
or something. Yeah.
Ripped them out of the wall. Yeah, yeah.
And so who would have done that though?
The the roid guy? Yep.
So even though he was raised, he had enough forethought to say
I'm going to go and turn off the lights at the so and so.
Yeah, yeah. That.
That's kind of weird. Oh yeah, he was.
He was pumped. He was ninja monster stalking
them. He's a but really quiet about
it. That does it for me for
negative. OK, all right, I've got one more
and it is probably another indication I'm just a terrible
person, but that is one ugly baby.
It looks, it looks like a prop that may have been used in a
horror movie. It's just, yeah, I don't know.
Now, one interesting thing is that I think we've noticed
before that spots, even though they look like they're just
pigmentation, it is possible for the spots to either lose
pigmentation or to even be either wrinkly or have
indentions. And so it is interesting to see
that the baby has more ripples in her head in like there aren't
spots yet. It's more like ridges that I
guess get filled in overtime and whatever the filling is, maybe
that is where that extra coloration comes in for the
spots. And so that's a little bit of
interesting visual trivia. Now, don't get me wrong, the
mastery in the baby itself is pretty great because obviously
it's some kind of puppet or something and it's done very
well, but it it doesn't look very angelic for a newborn baby,
which grand maybe, you know, newborn babies aren't always
that great. I mean, they, they come out,
they're scrunched up, they've had a stressful event just
happened. They're they're, you know,
instantly crying. They're not exactly having
their, you know, their first day is not exactly their best day.
And so I know that that might be realistic too, that, you know, a
baby just being born, you know, isn't, you know, maybe still are
looking, but still, I just I wish they'd try a little bit
hard, especially especially since Matt, who again, we've
said is not the most sensitive guy in the world, says, oh,
she's beautiful. And I'm like, OK, but yeah, it
was a little scary. So.
So do you agree? And regardless of whether you
want to answer that question or not, am IA terrible person
you're. Definitely a terrible person.
I agree. But yeah, you're a terrible
person. No, it's I think you said my
point. Let me read into your words that
you and I are both digging this scene and how they've put it
together. So it's just they lose points
for the baby just because it pulls us out of that joy,
wonder. Great moment.
So so they had some options here and I think the the better
choice might have been, you know, a pretty small baby with
like paint on its head or a little rubber prop that they do
the Ed wood thing where you kind of jiggle it.
So it's a little rubber arm jiggles.
And that might have been a better call.
But they went for the full animatronic puppet and it is I
think Stan Winston would say it's absolutely beautiful.
So that's what I tried to be in touch with is it is an
impressive. You already said this.
It's an impressive feat of animatronics, and I love that
they had the budget for it. That baby might have cost
$500,000. Man, that's a crazy puppet.
But yes, it was not pretty. So yeah, but I am.
I'm going to say Nick wouldn't have brought that up.
And Todd's just terrible because if I don't say it, you'll,
you'll have the robot say it anyway.
So I'm just going to say it. Way ahead of you and I'm not a
robot, I'm a professional voice over artist.
Yeah, and I can't help but wonder if I'm still on something
about it being a prop from a horror movie because maybe that
is what saved them money because like you said, this show
probably doesn't have that high a budget.
I can't help but wonder if they did borrow this from a previous
production and they just said, OK, mess with the head to make
it look alien. But it was, you know, actually
something from either horror movie or a sci-fi movie or
something where the baby didn't need to look stellar.
And they're like, OK, that saves us some money because we don't
have to do it ourselves. Well, I can't tell you.
I mean, the Internet that it, there's a lot of stuff about
alienation, but juicy bits like where they got the baby prop
from and if they built that fresh or if they got to
repurpose it. That's a great question.
And alienation, I just don't think it has as deep a following
as it should. Like maybe just a fraction of
what Star Trek has for people to be trying to figure out where
every prop came from. So yes, you'll need to write in
e-mail us, even if you listen this episode in two years and
you'd be like, obviously, here's where the baby came from.
I'd be very interested to find out.
Yeah. And I thought for sure there
would be something about it in that unofficial companion book,
but there there wasn't. We're going to research that
more later. Mention it in a follow up
episode. Where did baby Francisco come?
Are you ready for connecting the spots?
Sort of ready, but I don't have a lot for it to be honest.
That's. Fine, I don't either.
The first thing in connecting the spots where we look at some
comparisons to other shows, maybe in plot, maybe in casting.
It's just that in our thesis about losing track of your own
gender and the quest for society's version of your
gender, our main bad guy juicer his girlfriend tells us that
he's pretty much become impotent because he's using steroids.
I. Don't know when he'll be back.
Where was he between midnight and 3:00 AM?
I don't know. Lots of times he stays at the
gym after he closes up. Lately, he's been staying all
night. All right, yeah.
At first I thought he was seeing someone else, but no way.
Jose for. Me.
She's so sure. Well.
Let's just say the muscle man act ends between the sheets.
I'm sorry I don't follow you. He.
Can't perform. You mean he can't sustain an
erection? Yeah, George, that's just what
she means. He's impotent.
Like the only reason he seems to be doing it, a newcomer comes in
and lifts weights much better than him, and he goes in the
back and loads up even more so he can show off because his
girlfriend seemed impressed by this other guy.
So in his head, he's doing it partly to impress her.
But she points out that the two of them are not really hooking
up anymore. And like I said already, he's
living at the gym now, so they're really, really not
together. He's got a beautiful girlfriend,
but yeah, that's not going anywhere.
And just in the real world, that is one of the side effects of
steroids. So they weren't making that up.
That's like an actual thing that happens.
I think you get like, shrunken legs and stuff, too.
But it it does a lot of weird side effects.
I have a few casting notes. Our guest from out of town, Nick
Coletta, Matt's asshat friend from Detroit, he played Hank on
120 episodes of Doctor Quinn, Medicine Woman, which I wouldn't
mention except, you know, I think there might be one Doctor
Quinter out there who was like, oh, Hank.
I, I don't, I've seen 8 episodes and they were great.
But yeah, I can't speak to that. And he was in the original
RoboCop movie as a creep over to the side.
I mean, there's a lot of punks in that movie.
So he was punk #2 AD Muyich plays our big bad guy
bodybuilder who collapses and attacks Victor Windcos.
Nothing for him. Like I said, I think they got
him off the boat. But the guy who owns the gym who
seems like this interesting older human dude personality and
we find out he makes his own dietary supplements and stuff.
Hank Garrett was in 12 of 14 episodes of Max Headroom.
We talked about Max Headroom a lot on this show.
I think I heard us mention it briefly in a previous episode.
But yeah, if he's in 12 of 14 episodes, he must be one of the
evil board members. We see an evil board every now
and then or something like, but a lot of these people are not
people. So if you're wondering if I'll
mention the the blonde girlfriend and what she's in,
I'm not going to She's not in stuff and not just like not
sci-fi. I think a lot of them did not do
a lot of it. I think maybe it's the fitness
angle. They may have cast fitness
people instead of a lot of actors.
There's a character named Saul Birnbaum and he's, he's an older
gentleman in the episode and he was in Airplane 21 of my
personal favorites as Old man #2 and in the famous Twilight Zone
movie sequence of Kick the Cam with the Old People, which if
you haven't seen it, it's a delight.
And there is a nurse in this episode, played by Patty Toy.
I'm guessing it's that brief bit in the hospital when they're
asking the steroid guy where he got it.
There's a nurse, and she was in two episodes of Babylon 5.
At least one of them. She's playing a Rep for the
Cycor. I know enough about the show to
know the Cycor, and I think she's over to the side in the
movie Speed. And the only other one is a
character named Rankin, who I'm not even sure who that.
Oh yeah, I do know Rankin, I think is the guy from the last
episode who looks like Frank Oz. And I think he's the production
manager, and they just gave him a walk on part, which I think is
adorable. Art Seidel.
So it's like, Art, put on this outfit.
Come on, be a cop for a scene. He's like, really, you guys?
Yeah, Art, go ahead. So yes, that is it for me for
connecting the spots. OK the only one I have is that
the music being played during the baby shower sounds familiar.
It's tink the knees music and no lyrics or anything, and either
they've played it once before, or it might be the music that is
played near the end of the first TV movie, or maybe both.
Or maybe I'm imagining things and it came from somewhere else.
Or it might just be similar but not the same.
But I swear there was something super familiar about that music
at the. Time of editing this episode,
Nick and Todd have already recorded reviews for the whole
season of Alien Nation, and Todd has already viewed all of the TV
movies. He says he's pretty sure he's
right, that this song is at the end of the first one.
Dark Horizon. Well.
The in the episode Chains of Love, and I had forgotten about
it until you said this, they had that one pop song that was like
sung by newcomers in Tank Deniz and I, I'd forgotten totally
about it. So maybe the people who did
that, they were like, throw together something kitschy that
we can have playing at the baby shower and they like, went for
it. Like just something
instrumental, something that, or maybe they're repurposing.
Yeah, but it's just, who knows, They got up to something.
Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Well, let me see if that's all
for connecting the spots. Well, actually, actually I had a
question for connecting the spots.
So the guy that played the the main steroid type guy, is that
one of the ones that you were talking about that didn't have a
whole lot of IMDb? Yeah.
Victor Windcos, yeah. OK.
And I didn't know if you knew enough about him to know whether
his accent was intentional because he happened to be German
or Austrian or something like that, or if it was almost like a
spoof of Arnold Schwarzenegger. I believe it is my opinion that
he is like, well, Schwarzenegger.
When he played Hercules in his first movies, he was like, he
described it as fresh off the boat.
So I think that there are probably several bodybuilders
that came to our country that it's like someone will say, hey,
dude, you want to be in a movie. So AD Muyich is in three things.
Lionheart in 1990, which I think he's probably a fighter.
I think that's like a Van Damme movie, something called Hunter
in 1984 and Alien nation. And I think that's about it for
him. So yes, I think he's cast it's
and that's another thing I, I think I might mention it again
later, but it's just in the 80s that was our our visual, a
really cool fighter was a thick dude with like an extra 110 lbs
of straight muscle. It was the the aesthetic and it
really changed, I want to say about the time John Mcclane
crawled around inside a building and people were like, this is
not an action hero. What are you guys doing?
And America absolutely loved it. So they're like, they don't have
to have thick rippling muscles and the aesthetic change.
So this show, this episode is like a last episode of that.
Yeah. Muyich, he's a stuntman in
Lionheart with Van Damme. He's a fighter #2 At one point
when I said Hunter, it's, it's the TV show Hunter something, a
video called American Revenge. So yes, a very short lived
career. I think he spent most of his
time just pumping weights and acting was something that they
tried, but the truth is nobody likes to admit it.
Schwarzenegger has a lot of personality.
Every once in a while they'll grab a muscly dude and try and
give him a career, and it does not work for all of them.
The Rock has a crazy amount of personality, but some of them
don't. So yeah, he was just a pumped
dude in this with a thick accent.
I don't think it was intentionally silly or making
fun of Schwarzenegger. I think he really does just talk
like that. All right, all right, well, I
guess we'll move on to the Albert Einstein Award, but maybe
we should just skip it because seriously, I don't think there
was an example this week, so we. Have two chances, OK and neither
of them are on screen. They in order to make super
steroids with bits of newcomer in it.
So you know, it's good. They have two blood donors that
we see their names listed and we don't see the guys and one of
them is John Adams and the other one is Ramon Navarro.
And both of these are people. So we have to choose between
Ramon Navarro, who is a famous Mexican silent film actor, even
though we'd have to look it up. So do we give points to him for
diversity or do we give it to John Adams, our statesman and
2nd president? Or you know what?
None of y'all deserve it because you weren't even in the episode.
What do you think? Oh, yeah.
So I didn't even notice. And you said it's like, what?
Just to mention we don't see these people.
Yeah, they. They have the names of two blood
donors who are newcomers, and those are that I.
Mean, I guess if we got to give it to somebody, John Adams,
because at least that one is super obvious.
But yeah, I it is. It is good that you caught that.
I missed it somehow. I was.
Trying so hard and there are a lot of people in this episode
that are just human lame. So, yeah, not a lot to work
with. So John Adams, 2nd president,
you are winner of the Albert Einstein Award.
And and honestly, Ramon Navarro, I don't know who in the audience
was like, Oh my gosh, like the famous Mexican silent film
actor. But, you know, I hope you
enjoyed that moment, listener, if that was your thing, I'm
proud of you. I'm impressed.
So we are ready for I have to talk about this.
If you have anything left you haven't gotten to mention, I've
got like 2. But yeah, what do you got?
All right, so a few things from that unofficial companion book
that I've mentioned several times already.
Producer Tom Chahack said he lost a lot of battles in the
writers room about the way this episode handled George's
pregnancy. He felt the episode was just
quote, mimicking the stereotype of a pregnant woman, UN quote,
and he was bothered by the tone of the whole piece.
But he explains that majority rules.
So the rest of the writers, I guess must have liked it, is
what he was suggesting. Let me see.
Eric Pierpoint said he had fun with the episode.
For research. He talked to a lot of women
about their childbirth experiences.
He said one of his all time favorite scenes was when Georges
ticked off at Matt at work and Justice fusses with stuff on his
desk and knocks something out of Matt's hand.
So apparently he really had a lot of fun with that scene.
Gary Graham said that he and Eric decide to really commit to
the labor scene. And while you were talking about
something about the cast, I was skimming through the paragraphs
of this entry on trying to find more about the baby.
And I do vaguely remember either Gary Grammar or Eric Carepoint
say it. Yeah, it was kind of fun with
the special effects and the pouch was fake and we had ooze
on the baby and everything, but they never come around and say
exactly what the baby is. And so again, I'm surprised that
bit of trivia isn't in there. And so then the last thing is
that Eric said that when George tells Matt to breathe and later
says that Vesna has Susan's spots, those were actually ad
libs. Oh yeah, wow.
Yeah, so that's how committed they were to the scene is they
they kind of got into it and actually it said some things
that weren't even in the script, so.
Well, OK, so as an excuse to talk about Star Trek The Next
Generation, it was pointed out to me there's an episode later
in the show where it felt like either the writers or the actors
or both were adding callbacks to previous episodes as though they
really cared, just as little trivia.
So like there's an A Berkeley episode where Deanna Troi, our
counselor, tells the uptight character to do this pressure
point tap behind his ear when he gets frustrated or something,
and it's a throwaway thing. And a bunch of us left that week
tapping behind our ear. Yeah.
To see if it worked. And this episode is like two
seasons later, and someone is talking to Deanna Troy about her
mom or something. And what does she do?
But she reaches up and starts tapping behind her ear.
So what you're describing, where an actor is like, you know what?
The baby's named Vesna. Let's talk a little about Vesna.
Let's just have a moment. And that's that's cool.
You know, reading of the script, add something real that counts.
They could have just said, hey, George, you know, she's got
your, your, your wife's spots, you know, or something.
But you know, he's like, no, no baby has a name.
You're the godfather. So that's really cool.
I did like that they mentioned that the baby is named Vesna.
And this is from the Uncle Moodri episode with the Magic
Box that we saw previously where he was saying it's traditional
to name the baby after the mother's mother, I think, but or
maternal grandmother or something.
So yeah, that's. I like that they remembered it
and I like that they brought it up.
That was cool. When the case seems to go
nowhere and there really isn't that much of a case.
Who gave you the steroids? We got it on the street.
No, I mean, they're making it. It's like there is nobody else.
You've already caught the bad guy at the beginning.
He's the one who passed out. But Grazer tells them, forget
about this case, it's a dead case and he wants to put them on
a gambling ring out of Palach clubs.
And I just, I liked that they mentioned Palach again.
So it's a kind of newcomer wrestling that was first
mentioned and shown in Episode 6, the first cigar.
We haven't seen it since and it looked CD.
But George seemed to respect the sport.
And in Episode 11, Chains of Love.
It's one newcomer's hobby on his dating profile, so there must be
gems as well as underground clubs.
It definitely felt like gambling was going on in that warehouse
where we saw it in the first cigar.
So an underground watch club and that's it for me, OK.
So the only thing left for me is wheel of press kit.
So let me spin the wheel and let's see what I can read from
the press kit. And OK, so I'll read a little
snippet from the profile for Michelle Scarabelli, who plays
Susan Francisco. Born in Montreal, Michelle spent
the first three years of her childhood in Venezuela, where
she acquired a child to fluency in Spanish.
In her professional life, Michelle Scarabelli overcame her
childhood shyness the moment she stood in front of a still
camera. Initially, this is a quote.
Initially, I had a lot of fun modeling, but after a while, the
routine of giving the camera the same looks with the same face
seemed depleting. And there's still a stigma
attached to coming from a modeling background.
And Michelle's determination has certainly turned the stigma into
an advantage. After appearing in regional
Montreal productions of The One Time Woman or Excuse Me One
Woman drama tape recorder with the Montreal Actors Studio and
chamber music with the prestigious Centaur Theatre,
Michelle relocated to Toronto where she developed her comedic
skills during a year long stint with the world renowned Second
City Workshop. What?
Yeah, the move to Toronto brought Michelle her first
television feature, the CBC film Labor of Love, where she played
an Acadian woman frustrated by small town life.
Oh my gosh. So I take it from your reaction
that you're familiar with Second City then, right?
Well. I mean, so Catherine O'Hara
passed away recently. So the idea of Second City TVI
think it's actually coming back to a streamer.
It is, if you all haven't seen it, it's a little like Saturday
Night Live, just maybe a little less polished and a little
weirder. But yeah, this is this is where
a lot of our favorite people got their start, including Catherine
O'Hara. So I love the idea of coming
across Michelle Scarabelli on there.
That's that's really cool. OK, And while you're talking, I
went ahead and spun the wheel again.
So this time I get a little bit of trivia about the date, time
and normal time slot that comes from the quasi fake newspaper
Alien Times that was at the front of the press kit.
And this is from the portion of that quasi fake newspaper that I
think is more real than fake. And this must have been in my
notes for a while because I actually paraphrased this one so
I wouldn't have to read anything.
The article says that the pilot movie would air from 9:00 to
11:00 PM on Monday 18th of September of 1989.
And I found that interesting because Fox is a 2 hour
primetime network, they don't go to the 10:00 hour.
So I thought the fact this went from 9:00 to 11:00 was kind of
weird. So I'm guessing that they either
had special permission from local affiliates to go past
10:00 PM, or it could be that that was an early plan that got
changed. Because I think there's another
part of this press kit that says that it would premiere at 8.
So maybe it's either a misprint or a plans change or something
like that. But anyway, the show's normal
time slot was planned for Mondays at 9 starting September
25th, the very next week. But the article also says that
some viewers would get the chance to meet the real
Francisco family as Fox had plans for a nationwide tour.
And so, and again, I paraphrase this, I haven't looked at the
the main article recently, so I'm not sure if they explained
that nationwide tour. But I guess they went like on an
actual press tour where they were talking about the show
saying this is a show that's coming and doing interviews.
And again, it says plans for a nationwide tour.
How they actually went through it or not isn't clear either.
But yeah. Anyway, just a little bit of
trivia on the time slot of the show.
Nationwide tour the Francisco family.
That is crazy. If Todd and I redo the entire
show in a few years under assumed names, we're going to
have so much more information. But yes, that's that's epic,
man. The press kit has a bunch of
cool stuff in it. I have to look up Labor of Love
later, but I had already scanned a lot of these cast members
repertoires for anything that jumped out at me.
But that means I missed a bunch of stuff.
So now occasionally I'll go back and look and be like, what?
She's in what? So yes, there's some interesting
stuff there. Cool.
I think. Let me see, We're ready for
scoring it, all right? Well, I usually give a Star Trek
Alumni score or an STA. This episode has a base for for
Sykes, Mr. and Mrs. Francisco, and Captain Grazer, who are in a
lot of the episodes, but no one else.
I think an STA score of 4 is as low as we've ever been.
So these are dark times indeed. Friends, that is who, if you
guys are coming for the Star Trek alumni, try not to turn off
the show now because I'm sure more will come.
But I also rate episodes on a watch skip basis.
And this is another episode that's amazingly progressive for
its time, but also for today. Todd and I are watching it in
the time when heterosexual men can win competition shows and
cooking, fashion and dance, but we're still not supposed to show
certain feelings or act certain ways.
But for 1990, I mean, wow, you have to watch this one because
even though we've mostly moved past the Schwarzenegger
physique, it's amazingly pro authenticity, pro gender on a
spectrum. And like I said before, it's
amazing how horrified some elements of our society would be
by parts of this episode today. So I guess you need to see it
just because it's daring, very daring in messaging and
everything. What did you think, Todd?
I already kind of hinted at this at the beginning.
This episode was a great episode.
It is definitely one of the best, but I think I was hoping
for a little bit more. And I think I'm starting to
realize that a lot of my memories of watching this show
before and the reason it ranks so high amongst my favorite
science fiction TV shows is mostly because of certain
scenes. And this episode has one of the
best scenes, the childbirth scene, but the rest of the
episode isn't as good. And not that it's bad, it's
just, you know, we're kind of waiting for that final scene and
I can't, I might have explained this in the previous episode,
but I feel it's a little bit of the Up effect where the Pixar
movie Up has like 3 great things in it and everybody remembers
that, those 3 great things, but then they almost forget the
plot. I think this is another episode
that kind of suffers from the Up effect.
Despite all that, in spite our little nitpicks and everything,
it is still great and I do still give it an A minus but I was
hoping looking for that a or a plus.
Well, then again, next disclaimer, an A minus is a
pretty big deal for Todd everybody.
So that's a that's high praise. Yeah, In fact, I'm starting to
wonder if I should go back and like re watch some of these and
recalibrate because I'm like, I think I was being too tough on
the show early on because I thought surely that A that will
have there be plenty of A's and and maybe even a plus or two
along the way. And and now that that is not
quite getting there, I'm like someone might be B minuses early
on should have been B's or maybe even B pluses.
I don't know we're. Going to re evaluate later, but
yes. So join us coming up next time
on alienating ourselves as we explore Alienation's 18th
episode, Crossing the Line. Francisco worries that Sykes is
hiding something when he cancels his vacation plans to help track
down a killer. So this description is really
vague and I haven't watched it yet because I watch them when
you guys do. But based on past experience, of
course Matt's hiding something. Todd already knows what it is.
But you and I will find out together next time.
On alienating ourselves, I continue to be Nick Frutiger.
I'm Todd, thank you for listening to us while you buff
up at the gym. We'd love to see some reviews
where you listen to podcasts. If you love us, like us, or can
barely tolerate us, please give us five stars.
If you go so far as to do steroids just to punch us in the
face harder, please give us four stars.
If you give us three stars or lower, you just ain't man
enough. As as always, may all your milk
be as fresh or as sour as you prefer it to be.
And always, always, always wait until a person confirms they are
actually pregnant before asking when the baby is due.
A stand up comedian I used to listen to learn that the hard
way. Let's not make the same mistake
he did. Have a great week.
Goodnight everybody.
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