Case 1.24

#024 - Alien Nation 1.18 "Crossing the Line"

2026.06.10 1:21:47

Alienating Ourselves Podcast

0:00 1:21:47

This week is the first of two Sikes-centric episodes, first with Sikes obsessing over a particular murder case right when he's supposed to start a vacation to Hawaii, in "Crossing the Line." Meanwhile, the Franciscos are preparing a special ceremony for newborn Vessna, and one family member isn't quite sure how to honor the baby.

- Does the new support character, Beatrice Zepeda, make a good first impression? What is her nickname for George, and is she a worthy replacement for Dobbs?

- How strange is it to have tabloid report Burns in this episode when the actor that plays him used to be in the opening credits, isn't any longer, and is finally given the most to do in this episode even as a guest star?

- Does anyone else think it's unusual that everyone at the police station gave Matt a going away part, including gifts, for just a vacation?

- Which of the co-hosts had an issue with the early banter between Matt, Zepeda, and Lois?

Listen now for the answer to these and other questions, as we take a look at "Crossing the Line."

Please rate or review us wherever you listen to podcasts. Our e-mail is [email protected].

Royalty-free music in this episode comes from Pixabay.com

Humans and aliens working together. I really want to dig more into their culture. It's a mirror up to humanity. Social commentary through allegorical storytelling. Wild angry old man opinions that did you each choose? I think tradition. I have chosen love, I've chosen spirituality, which leaves the gift of honor to you in you will know. Celine will tell you. I don't know. They're not helping. I need more concrete instructions than that. Well, it means what it means. Takes a lot. Fuck, what did you do Emily?

If you get this wrong you can smell disaster dude. You almost killed somebody. You don't have the high ground here. I'll be killing somebody outside the Lowe's at about 7:00 PM. My wife found it to be haunting. Good, they should react badly and that should keep them away from it because nobody should smoke. I don't care about your subplot. You when you try to get Albert to smoke. Oh, that's a choking hazard. Oh, she doesn't choke on that. George Francesco is one of my all time favorite characters.

The show is going to go to places that I really enjoy. Sour milk is a good thing to the tank the knees. Stay tuned listeners. Of press kit. Yikes. Sykes watching Alien Nation and we enjoy. It I am one of your hosts, Todd. This is Nick. This is the Alienating Ourselves podcast. Greetings humans and newcomers and welcome back to Alienating Ourselves, the podcast where we examine sci-fi entertainment with a focus on aliens and the workaholic Co worker humans that don't know when to go on vacation. I am one of your hosts, Todd.

I can somewhat understand Matt Sykes postponing his vacation to Hawaii in this week's episode of Alienation over something as important as catching a serial killer. Because it would take a life or death situation to keep me from Dragon Con, a yearly vacation I take that can't be postponed. And joining me, as always, is a guy who makes a great podcasting partner, despite the fact that we've only met in person briefly on the last day of a Dragon Con vacation. It's Nick. Nick, how's it going? It's going so good.

And I mean, I got to know you online, just I had no idea how like minded we were. In fact, y'all, this podcast, I thought it was going to be different. I thought Todd and I were going to argue all the time just based on his review of the thing I got to tell you. But yeah, a lot of unintentional, accidental like mindedness. We're both the same age. Oh my gosh. It seems planned, but it is not. So yes, yeah, I think I'm guilty of working later than I should and staying longer than I should. And I work in education, so it's really easy to be like, if I just stay on a little bit longer, I can help more people.

But yes, that work life division thing is not always easy. But yeah, so tonight, let's get into it. We're going to look at alien nations 18th episode crossing the line, which originally aired Monday night, February 26th, 1990. This episode was directed by Gwen arner, who directed the previous episode the night of screams, which gets a pretty significant amount of shout outs this week. So a lot of stuff they bring over. And Stephen Long Mitchell and Craig W Van Sickle are a writing duo who also wrote High and Low episodes 15 with Wanda, The Red Room, and The Game.

So they have some some big wins and maybe some not so wins. And they have more coming up. So in this episode, Sykes is about to head out for a vacation to Hawaii like Todd was saying. But George and temporary partner Beatrice Zepeda get a report of a victim with sodium pentathol in their system. And suddenly Matt won't leave town and won't sleep and won't shave until he tracks the killer down. Meanwhile, baby Vesna Francisco is coming up on her mookty booty ceremony like a christening, and little Emily is the only one not taking it seriously.

So it turns out that killer was a traumatic unsolved case from Matt's past, and his sleazeball reporter Burns just doing his job or fanning the flames of a killing spree. What was your first response to this episode, Todd? Well, this is a good episode, and it has an interesting and intense performance from Gary Graham as Matt Sykes. But the police case of the week is a little bit thin, or at least it was to me, and less compelling than usual. And sometimes the police story is already not super duper compelling in a in a usual episode.

And this one's maybe even a little bit lower. But the alien culture that we get this week is great, as usual. Maybe feeling a little bit more shoehorned in, and I might be able to elaborate on that a little bit later when we do our good and bad stuff. How about you? Yeah, I, I think I know where you're going to go with that, and I think I'm going to be about on the same page. I like this episode. It was pretty straightforward, almost simple based on how much they try to pack into some of the previous episodes.

It's got a serial killer, it's got one of our detectives traumatic pasts, and it's got a Tanktonese ritual. So it's kind of a by the numbers episode. Like if you have to check boxes for an episode of Alien Nation, who's your killer? What's your Tanktonese ritual? Which detective has a traumatic past? It's like, all right, good, let's let's do it. It's not the same thing as saying it's bad. All the pieces are there and all the pieces are done pretty well, so I enjoyed it, but it seemed kind of simple compared to some of the others.

So we will move into our sour milk, the tasty, wonderful, delicious, slightly spoiled bits. So what's your first sour milk dad? Well, so as you've already mentioned a few times, we get our first appearance of Beatrice Cepeda. I think she's in not all the episodes that are left this season, but a couple of them at least. And I think she might be in one or two or three of the TV movies too. And I like her. She's a nice addition. She's even, I'll even go so far as to say she's a nice substitute for Dobbs.

I know we've kind of picked on Dobbs a little bit for not always being a super developed character when he was still around. I'm not sure they get super developed was a pay to later either, but I just do like her personality. And while it takes her about halfway through the episode, she does finally use the nickname Spaceman for George about three times. And you can tell that when she says it, she means it as a totally benevolent nickname and nothing derogatory. And apparently George is OK with it because he doesn't seem offended by it either.

Hey, Spaceman, did you get Sykes off? Oh yeah. So I put him on the bullet. Plane about an hour ago. We should be there by now, Selena.

Wow, you're still worried about Sykespace man? Forget it by now. He's fancy free and wakey key. They're still coming up empty on that. It would be on the pickup, but listen to this space man. Sid ran a check on the cellulose fibrous gun and I got into this one bag. Same kind used a new Sprint back in the 80s. So yeah, I'm glad Zepeda is finally showing up. Well, I'm, I want to put words in your mouth, but I am horrified and scandalized that you would trade Dobbs for Zapato. But she is. She's in all the TV movies, the Internet says, except for The Enemy Within.

So I had no idea. I did not remember this woman at all. But to be fair, I remembered very few of the characters. And yeah, it turns out we're going to see a lot more of her. So maybe Dobbs left on his own, maybe Freddy, Boom, boom, Washington was kind of over the show and they got her instead. Or maybe they wanted to mix it up. There were a lot of dudes on the show, you know, maybe get a few ladies to balance it out some. But I could see that. My first positive is that the thing that the thing that makes this episode really stand out for me is what the slimeball reporter Burns does.

So he publishes a photo he underhandedly takes of a note left at the scene of the crime, and he takes it off of somebody's desk, like opening a folder when they're distracted. And he gives the killer a cool nickname, the Doctor of Death, and the killer likes it and strikes up this relationship with Burns for mutual self promotion. So in the process, Sykes and Burns kind of walk us through some cool questions about where the line is between freedom of speech and a reporter being an accessory to murder.

And Burns, in his defense, he just seems to be kind of a moron about it. Like he has not asked any ethical questions. He's so used to saying freedom of the press, the Constitution, like those two things as a complete sentence and not as a thought. But he he he's never asked himself, you know, where is there a line? Is there something I shouldn't do? So we're watching him get deeper and deeper. And by the end it's like, I don't know, I'm, I'm exaggerating, but it feels like the killer is ready to like, go see a movie with him and get ice cream.

And Burns is like looking left and right, like there's something weird about this.

But yes, I thought that them bringing in those ethical questions to me was the relief stand out of the whole show. But they don't they don't dig too deep in it. They just kind of point at it and be like, that's not cool. So yes, that was my first positive. Yeah. And I agree with you that that is definitely an interesting moral concept about how much freedom of press, speech, expression, all need to be protected, and they're important. But at the same time, you have to be careful because even though you have freedom of speech and freedom of press, that doesn't necessarily mean you have freedom from consequences for saying anything you want or publishing anything you want.

And so it's an interesting concept. And so I know we're in good stuff, but technically, one of my bad things I'll be talking about later is how I guess I didn't get that immersed in that concept. So it's good that you got more out of the episode than I did. Yeah, that's your. Next positive. Yeah. So my next one is that this is Matt at his most intense and serious, and there's nothing silly or frustrating about the performance. I know I've often picked on the character, some of the past and maybe sometimes the actor for Matt being either frustrating or over the top or maybe sometimes even a bit silly.

And in this episode, none of that was there. He was definitely intense. There were times that you could tell that he was losing sleep. And I couldn't help but wonder how much of that was makeup and how much was that the actor maybe getting into it? Like maybe did he intentionally lose some sleep so he could look like that naturally? This was definitely a very good performance. So even if I didn't necessarily like the subplot, I appreciate the performance that came out of the subplot. 80s melodrama and police pushed to the edge and crossing the line.

And it's maybe it's sort of hokey because I grew up with it. So it feels even more cliched than it might be. So the more Matt doesn't say things he should obviously say and doesn't share stuff he should share. And I'm just kind of frustrated. And when we prepared for this episode, we LED into it a couple of weeks ago and the teaser is like, George thinks Matt might be keeping a secret for why he's not going on vacation or something. And I'm like, of course he's keeping a secret. So we all knew before I even saw the episode that he's like holding something back.

And it's a dark past, you know? And but he does. I mean, you're right. He gets more and more sunken and upset as he goes. My second sour milk is, like I said, the director, Gwen Arner, she directed episode 7, The Night of Screams, the Halloween episode, which it has a scene in it where George, who already knows who the killer is at this point and is not sharing it, just like Matt isn't sharing in tonight's episode. He's brushing off and disregarding every suspect that Matt brings up for the killer.

We don't. We know it's because he already knows who it is. But Matt is confused. Like, why do you just keep ignoring these suspects? And one of them, a guy, he says, he says that guy is clearly innocent. It's not him because he was based on what Matt told him in his apartment, he was in the middle of a mukti booty, which George kind of says is like a dedication ceremony to celebrate a new baby. So obviously that guy couldn't be a killer because he was knee deep in mukti booty. And it's a throwaway line and it's a weird detailed cultural reference for a background guy non suspect in an episode.

So I really liked that they not only brought it up again, they would have gotten points for me by bringing it up again. But essentially this episode is at least 50% about the mooty booty ritual. So it's it kind of feels like the writers already knew that they were going to have to have a baby dedication ceremony and they planted that seed early because that's the only reason I can think of to like go out of your way and come up with a who what writer thinks of a baby dedication Sarah. But anyway, I like that she brought it up again.

I like that Gwen Arner, the director, that she fleshed it out more. I think she likes her work on the night of screams. And I'm a big fan of tying things together in a fictional universe because it makes the original episode better by giving it more credence and it makes this new episode more real by connecting it to the past. But we get to see the ceremony, which is we kind of mentioned in the opener, is not that special compared to the other ceremonies. It's something we could kind of throw together and make up Todd and me pretty fast compared to some of the stuff they've done.

But it is still sweet. So I did like that that call back and stuff. Yeah, yeah. I would agree with that. Also that book that I got for Christmas, Alien Nation, the unofficial companion, it has a little bit of behind the scenes information and Gary Graham talks about this episode and how much he loved it and I might elaborate on that more later. But at the end of his big quote he said additionally Gwen Arner directed it. No wonder I love it. So I admit I haven't really tracked the directors as well as you have, but apparently he was a big fan of her directing.

And then also you talked about the Mukti booty ceremony that was originally in my miscellaneous category, but sometimes I move miscellaneous to positive. So I do have some of the details of that where you want to cover that or do you want me to go through it or go ahead take turns or? OK, jump into the mukti booty. OK, so you've already described it as being kind of their version of a christening and they each pick a, a certain, I guess you'll call it a virtue that they cover. And I don't know if these are predetermined.

I don't know if they're the same all the time or if they, or if, you know, they can truly pick anything out of a hat or whatever. And then they elaborate a little bit on this one word virtue later on when they actually have the ceremony and kind of say a little bit more about it. So Buck picked tradition as something that he wanted to bless Vestna with and then later during the ceremony he says I'll be responsible for teaching her of her past as a tinctonease. George picked love and he will be teaching how to love others as she loves her universe.

Susan picked spirituality and so she will be teaching Vestna about the journey and sacrifice of Andarko and Celine. Emily was left with honor, and that's why I'm wondering if these are predetermined because when they were listing through these originally, somebody said, well, I guess that leaves honor for Emily. So these might be predetermined, I don't know. But she said that she will be teaching Vesna the importance of being honest. And that's kind of connected to a little bit of a subplot that Emily has that maybe we might talk about later.

And then Matt is not around for any of the original conversations, but he's kind of shoehorned into the ceremony at the last minute. And so he doesn't necessarily have like, a one word virtue, but he does say that he that he will be teaching Vesna how special her father is. And as usual, that's a very nice touch at the end of an episode. Yeah. So yeah, that's a little bit about the mukti booty. Yeah. And OK, so Matt is going to go on this vacation that he won, but he didn't really win it. The guy who used to live in his apartment won it.

And so he's taking that guy's expenses paid trip to Hawaii. He's got his Hawaiian shirt. And for some reason, police are throwing him a going away to Hawaii on vacation party, which is, I don't know, I don't think my my crew would do that. But George gives him a present. He gives him this little jade figurine that isn't supposed to be jade. It's supposed to be something else and he explains that it's this traditional tanktonese travel stone thing and I don't think I even I barely noticed it and you don't get to see much of it when he does that.

And this is, I don't usually watch the episodes twice. I might go back and try and decipher some bit, but I did. I watched this one twice and this the second time I saw that what Matt puts in the cradle when the rest of them are putting stuff in is this little Jade Figuri, which I guess is to say that it's an example of how considerate George is and stuff. Yeah, that was really cool. And I I agree with what you're saying. I think it sounded like every family is going to have to teach the baby about spirituality, love, tradition and honor.

So they maybe they said, you know, hey, do you have a preference? And Emily did what kids do. And it's just like, I don't care, man. I don't know what's going on. So they they each picked and they were excited about them. And of course, Buck is going to teach about tradition because he loves it. With Uncle Moodri, he got so into his history as a people. And the other two, I have no reason to think that George has dibs on love and Susan has dibs on spirituality. They both seem pretty equally spiritual, but they seem to have picked something.

So yeah, she gets the default of honor. Yeah. And I'll come back to that. But I really like that. It was that little Jade figurine thing that I don't know, they didn't get into it a lot, but it was a cool touch. My last positive that I have is it's about Albert. So Albert is the phenom for the Francisco's and if you missed our three to tango episode, you might want to go back and check that out. But it takes 3 to tango. If you're a newcomer, you need a third in your relationship for a certain aspect, and that's his, interesting as it sounds.

So you might want to go back and listen to that episode. But Albert is at the beginning of this, taking them through preparation for the mukti booty. He's not there for the ceremony, but he's reminding everybody of their roles as this sort of hybrid spiritual leader that he's portrayed as in Three to Tango. And it's possible that the writers of the show are starting to realize that there's not that much for a police station janitor to do in the narrative. So I like that they are giving him more of the spiritual job because I like him in this aspect.

He's he's more like a, a monk, like Brother Albert. And he, he's not very competent in a lot of other circumstances. But in this, I think all of his training is in ceremonies and stuff because of his role in that milieu. So he has it. He brings this sort of. Youth pastor enthusiasm like wide eyed you are going to do this and you must remember this and he's all smiles and excited for them. So I I like seeing him in that role. I like it when they write that in. That does it for me for sour milk. Yeah.

And I'll definitely agree with you about Albert, because I pointed that out before too, that he seems to be in his element when he does the the spiritual ceremonies because, yeah, he is kind of weird and awkward other times. But but yeah, he that's where he shines and he where he seems to be most comfortable. So, yeah, that's a good point. And so you said you're totally done. So should I just speed through the rest of mine? Sure. OK, so you mentioned Emily a little bit, Emily's friend that comes by to pick her up to go to the mall.

And it's a very brief appearance, but it's by somebody named Cindy. And of course, we no longer had the actress that played Jill and we really barely had her in the 1st place. And so it's kind of a shame this isn't Jill, especially since Burns shows back up and they're both out of the opening credits, but Burns comes back anyway. So it would have been nice to see Jill. But on the other hand, it's also nice to see that Jill is not Emily's only friend. And then a little bit more about Emily. Were you going to cover what she put in the vessel?

Her gift? The physical manifestation? You go ahead. OK. So you talked a little bit about the travel stone that Matt puts in the crib. Well, Emily puts in the friendship bracelet that she got because when Sandy comes by, they're going to the mall to get these special friendship bracelets. I don't, I can't remember if they're on sale or if they're free or if they're being given away. But for whatever reason, they're going for these friendship bracelets. It makes Emily kind of late and distracted, and so she never comes up for what her gift to Vista is supposed to be.

So when it comes time to put the the gifts in the crib, she puts the friendship bracelet in there, realizing that, you know, she kind of messed up. And so she would rather give up the friendship bracelet and have that be symbolic for Vesna than to keep the friendship bracelet knowing that, you know, it's the thing that kept her from from doing her duty as a big sister. So I thought that was a neat touch. You talked about Albert. I have here under biology and culture, Taintanis apparently sometimes, if not always, react badly to nicotine and in a way good.

They should react badly and that should keep them away from it because nobody should smoke. But Albert almost seizes up when he is trying a cigarette and it is Burns who gives him a cigarette and encourages him to smoke. And maybe that's another reason why I'm not much into Burn subplot. It's like you're trying to encourage Albert to smoke, you know? It's not a nice. You're forfeit to me now. I don't. I don't care about your subplot. You when you try to get Albert to smoke. And then last little thing, The Tinctonies have trouble fitting hard hats meant for humans, and that makes for a neat little scene where they're going to interview somebody, I can't remember who, but it's somebody at some kind of construction site.

It has something to do with the mystery, the plot of the week, whatever. And George is along, and they're having to wear hard hats. And the hard head doesn't quite fit George at first. It's just kind of resting up on top of his head. And then he keeps loosening it, losing Lucy, and he's gradually able to get it down somewhat over his head, but not completely. So yeah, that was a little bit of background comedy while something else was going on. They traced the van that the killer was using to this construction company where the killer worked, probably under as an assumed name or his real name.

It really doesn't matter in this plot. So they talked to the foreman to get vital information. But yeah, it's a comedic thing in the background. You just hear. When I watched it again, I realized the foreman just says something like, sorry about the hard hats. You know, it's a rule, but that he says that before we're all on the screen. And I thought he was just saying, you know, like you would to any of us. I'm sorry to make you wear these things like, but we have to for legal reasons. But no, it's because George comes in and it's like sitting on top of his very, very big head.

So yeah, I did. I guess I don't know the thing about they really lose points with me for using Cindy instead of Jill. I mean like Speaking of Albert not having much to do, like little Jill hasn't had a lot of things to do as Emily's friend. And this episode is about Emily and her friend going to the mall and they're like oh we got a new one. Dang it. So Molly Morgan has been hanging out this whole time and finally they have a role for her and she but y'all can not feel too bad for Molly Morgan. She did not like I thought I looked.

I thought maybe she just like dropped out of acting and some people do. No, she has worked steadily since the Alien Nation. She's doing fine. So good. This was just something else. But yes, I will say I agree with you about a lot of that, but I wish they would keep using these actors. Oh, did I cut you off? Do you have some more positives? No, that's all. All right, well, looking at salt water, the negative things that I'll start this off simply just by saying y'all, I mean, I want to break it to you straight out.

Kathy is not in this episode. You know, I mean, I know you're just you're switching off the podcast, you're turning off the episode, but no tarry trees to be had. And maybe this was a kindness they were doing to Matt because he he does not look his best in this episode. He's probably not bathing for a few days. So I don't want his hot neighbor to see him while he's like this. So maybe it's maybe it's for the best but she didn't have anything to do in this one. She would have just had a scene where she looked concerned or something.

So go in wide eyed y'all knowing there's no Terry trees? Yeah, and you know, I've mentioned before that I've kind of skimmed ahead a little bit. One episode that I meant I skimmed the least, so I'm still not sure what it's about. But I did catch a few images of it. And honestly, I think it might also be one of the episodes I remember the least, if at all, from any previous watches. But it is the next to last episode of the season and it is Kathy centric. But I just don't remember how or why. And whether it's in a good way or bad way, I don't know.

But yeah, she will feature heavily in that episode. So I've already implied that the case of the week is not that compelling this week. So let me go ahead and elaborate on that a little bit. I'm not sure it's the episodes fault. It might be totally my fault because I mean, I've already talked before in the past about how I'm not always super into the the police drama and I think it's even worse this week. But I think I also kind of figured out why it's the first case that we've gotten in a while, if not in the whole show, where the case, the weak is not connected to the tanked knees.

The victims are humans, the perpetrator is human, the reasons for killing are totally non alien related. I mean, this is a purely human centric plot. And so I think that is the reason, because that was always the redeeming quality in past police subplots, is that even if I wasn't totally into the mystery and the details of the investigation, it was still related to the Tanktonese. And I'm watching for the cultural and biological aspects of the Tanktonese. And this time everything is just totally separate.

So I think that might have been what hurt it a little bit, yeah. Like you said, it being almost entirely human is one thing and I think it's fairly simple just because the the plot is supposed to be the drama about Matt's feelings and maybe the drama about Emily's feelings. So the killer is not he's not a complicated conspiracy Klee song sung terrorist killer. He's just ass serial killer. He's just like going around murdering people in a row all over the country and finding him is largely a matter of course for just plodding along until you get to the end.

So yes, if you're coming for the intrigue and the twists and turns of a police episode, is it will let you down a little bit there. But there are other things that are benefits to that. But yeah. Do you have a Yikes sites to add to the end of our saltwater section? You're already at the police spot. Let me see. Nope. No, not really. OK, then we may skip that section and I'll just subsume it all here. But so my thing, we've already mentioned Detective Zapeda when Matt's old partner Miles showed up back in episode 16.

It's called partners. I like their playful banter. I think I liked it more than Todd did. I believed that these two characters had an emotional connection. I don't know if the actors hung out and like practiced acting like long time brothers and you old son of a gun talk, but I bought all of it. Like I just I really felt like they cared about each other and stuff. So in this episode when Zapata shows up and Matt tells us she's just made detective, she's supposed to fill in for Matt while he flies to Hawaii.

The first half of her dialogue is just her and Matt roasting each other. And unlike Miles, this whole banter landed so flat with me. It's all on a par with like, dad jokes. Like, I guess they'll let anybody in here, you know? And it's not. They're doing their job. But in my imagination, if Gary Graham rehearsed with the actor that played Miles, I don't think he and this actress practiced at all. I think they brought their B game. Like, show up, do your job, say your lines. But it was all, you know, hey, come on.

You know, this loser over here and it's just, I don't know, is very by the numbers, but it keeps going. There's a lot of it. And it bleeds over, too. So when Matt sees Lois, the lovely coroner that I've talked about so much in last episodes, I'll try not to talk about too much in this one. But she's this very pretty lady who this time is outside at the crime scene. He makes a comment about the ghouls aren't out in the daytime to the coroner. He's teasing her because apparently now they're all burning each other.

And it was this weird thing with the writers of the beginning. They were just going for it. And I guess maybe it's to show that Matt is more playful now, so that later on when he's got the sunken cheeks and he's depressed and distraught and obsessed, it balances or contrasts. But I got him just being this weird cartoonist version of Matt where he's just making fun of everybody and ribbing everybody. And I swear, if you go back, he has never said a joke around this corner once. Like not even a, you know, I guess this guy who got lit on fire got a really bad sun tan or something.

He makes no jokes. So yes, this was weird. I do think what we said before that Zepeda could have been like, if she if it wasn't her, it could have all of these parts. This role could have been a stepping up moment for Lawrence Hilton Jacobs if he was still around, You know, like he disappears for a few episodes and it's like George is going to leave. Matt's going to leave town. Guess who's here? It's our old friend Dobbs. You know, where have you been? They could have said he was like transferred and we just never mentioned it.

And he's he's coming back over from this other station. It would have been great. Now she does fine. Once the ribbing stops, everybody calms down. I just I missed Dobbs and I know he would have answered the phone if you guys had called him at the production. So if you hear this Freddy boom boom, Washington, I would have fought to get you back. I just want you to. Yeah, I don't know if that register as a negative with me. I I mean, I guess it didn't because I didn't write it down as a problem, but I do kind of see what you're saying because when I think back to that scene, maybe it did just barely crossed my mind.

And like I said, not enough to actually write it down as negative, but maybe I did recognize it. And it's one of those things where you could almost see the words on the page where, yeah, somebody is trying to just fill time. You know, it's like, OK, they need to walk from this end of the roof to this other end of the roof, and we need to introduce this new character. It made this new character instant, instantly likable. Let's have the characters rib each other a little bit for fun. So yeah, I can.

I can see what you mean. So let me see my last nitpick. And whilst my last nitpick, it has a few little subparts to it and I've kind of already implied it a little bit extremely minor nitpick because I technically don't mind it. But Matt is kind of shoehorned into that mukti booty ceremony because there is not one discussion between him and George about it. You know, it's not like George ever says, oh, it's a shame you're you're going to Hawaii, you're going to miss the mukti booty or I wish you could have made it or, or we'll be thinking about you when we have it without you or something like that.

So apparently there were either no plans to include him or there would have been. But obviously Matt was originally intended to be out in Hawaii, so he had an excuse for not being there. And then all of a sudden when we get to the end of the episode, he is there. And if there was any discussion off screen about, you know, George inviting him, well, like I said, it happened on screen, which is fine. Again, I don't mind it because it does make for a nice cap of the episode where Matt says I will teach you about how special your father is.

And like you said, he gives the, the travel stone that George gave to him. So that thing kind of comes full circle and everything. And so it's very symbolic. It's, it's touching. And so I, I technically don't mind it, but at the same time it is kind of weird. It's like, hey, he didn't have anything to do with this, and now he does. And then the other little nitpick that comes out of this is that of course, you know, the way my mind works, when Matt does put this little stone in the crib beside Avestna, the thought does cross my mind.

Oh, that's a choking hazard. And of course, there are three adults standing around. 4 if you count Buck, who's pretty close. And Emily's pretty responsible too. There are five people who are standing right there, you know, supervising this whole situation. He does put it at the, like, head of the crib. So Vestin would have to like reach behind her to get it. And I'm sure even if she did mess with it and put it in her mouth, you know, there are people who would be there to take it out. And I'm sure they're not going to just going to leave all this crap in her crib.

You know, they do it for the ceremony, then they're going to take it out and put in, you know, a case or a bag or something like that. And so it's not like they're going to these objects are going to stay around to be choking hazards. But you know, the, the way my nitpicky mind works, I was like, oh, I hope she doesn't choke on that. So. That's a very good reaction, Todd. I'm I'm proud of you for like looking out and being like, that's wonderful. That's so sweet. Matt, thank you so much. We're just going to take that out of there and set it right over here.

That's good. It's good instincts. I think about how many things he must do when he gets to join in these things that are terribly rude, inappropriate, awkward, not right, and they overlook it and don't tell him because they're appreciative in general. So like, I was in a friend's wedding and it was a Catholic ceremony and I got to go up and do a reading, but I'm a Protestant, so I'm an outsider. And there's a certain way that you have to walk up and a certain way you have to approach and this thing you have to go through and it's a wedding.

So I'm I didn't do it right. And I love these people. They're hilarious. So I mentioned it, I think at the reception afterward, like I forgot this part. And they were like, we all know Nick, we all saw it practically ruins.

So it's it is, it's just when you feel loved, you can. So what you're saying where it's like it's tacked on and Matt kind of wanders in when he's like, you know, I'm going to put something in here and I'm going to say something. And they're all smiling like that. So sweet. And I was thinking at the time, it's like, you know, there's four things to say you are not supposed to do, but the the Earther just wanders in and thinks you just Chuck stuff in the crib and say something nice. That's not what we're doing.

Yeah. But at the same time, I think this was, out of all the examples of him being included in this stuff, I think this was a time that it was the least awkward, the most poignant, the most touching. He screwed up the least. I mean, really, the only thing he did wrong is after they put the stuff in the crib, they're supposed to cross their hands one over the other. And he had it backwards. Who cares? George kind of, like, did this little nod to him. He's like, oh, yeah. Then he flipped his hand the other way, and it was, it was no big deal.

So his hands were backwards. Yeah. I doubt it was, you know, offensive at all. And surely the Franciscos know him well enough to know by now that they shouldn't invite him if they don't want him to mess something up. So even if he had done something wrong, you know, hey, don't invite him then. But yeah, I think he did find this time. I thought it was good. I think, I think it they, they adore their silly little human friend who comes into the rituals and stuff and he means well. So yes, of course he just puts things in the crib and says nice, I get it.

So one of mine is I like this version of Buck as being not just a good Big Brother, which he was when they first found out they were pregnant and he was kind of excited for the baby. And he's been helping with a lot of these things along the way, the conception ceremonies and stuff. He just seemed to be a great supporter of the family. I like all that and it's showing him having a positive personality because the writers were not nice to Buck for the 1st 6 episodes. But in this episode, I found him way too intense.

So in my day job, I deal with kids and trying to give them clear expectations and when they don't know what to do, like help them and guide them, give them a chance. No one seems to help Emily. She's sort of the messing up in this episode, the flawed character. But as someone who works with kids, I'm watching them kind of let her down and set her up for failure. Now, the gifts that you give her are symbolic of what you are responsible for teaching her. I should have the vessel of Celine ready for the gift offerings.

Did you each choose? I picked tradition. I have chosen love. I've chosen spirituality, which leaves the gift of honor to you. Anne. Emily, do you understand your responsibility? Yes. Anne, this is tradition. Don't guess, no. If you follow what the writings of Celine tell us to do, Vesna will enjoy a good health. Don't worry, ABBA, we'll all follow the rules. Remember, by sundown, on the days leading up to the ceremony, everyone takes a turn putting a gift of their love into the vessel of Celine.

It's very important. So she's essentially saying, how do I do this thing? And they all keep telling her things like listen to your heart.

I need more concrete instructions than this. I I I, I, I get you. I get you. But but specifically what? Do what? And it's like you will know. Celine will tell you. I don't know. They're not helping. I can't even think of a gift to point the vessel for vessel and smoky booty. Well, according to the writings of Celine hem, listen to your hearts. Then physicalize that emotion with something symbolic. What does that? Mean. Well, it means what it means. Thanks a lot, Buck. Just remember, M sundown is your deadline.

But Buck, Buck is the worst because Buck is like, his face falls, he gets deadly serious. He's like Emily, if you get this wrong, it can spell disaster. So it's just. Sucks. Like dude, you almost killed somebody in the first episode. Yes. So yeah, yeah, Buck is Buck is shot a man. You don't have the high ground here. He's like Emily. Don't think no, you know, and it's just so so yes, that was I felt like they kind of let her down on that. But yeah, the the good news is there when she comes clean, they're very forgiving.

But if y'all don't know, like they're Albert is saying at the beginning that giving these gifts in the right way at the right time of day, day by day and order helps Celine to look after the baby and give it health. And then maybe Vesna gets really, really sick after Emily doesn't do hers. So she's like, I'm killing the baby when she tells them. Of course, George is like, you know, it was really great of you to step up and be honest. And Susan is like, you know, Emily, it's good to do the right thing.

And Buck is like, what did you do? So yes, yes, that that struck A chord with me. But it's all made right when she gives away her leather promotional items from the mall. But yes, that was. Good. You only have one kind of going about. Police work. OK, well, real quick before you do that kind of dipping back into good stuff, when Vestna was sick, they were trying to do some kind of weird home remedy thing for her and they were boiling something and I don't even remember what the ingredients were, but it was a type of thing that is odd compared to what a humans would would do, you know, homeopathically.

Well, there again, maybe homeopathy. It is kind of odd. But anyway, I can't remember if it was. I don't think it was wood chips because I know that was like a element of pregnancy or something. But they were either boiling something or or trying to extract, you know, wax or syrup or something out of something. I can't remember the details of that. But it was another one of those things that sounded very alien that they were trying to do to help Vista out. I might have that written down in the must bring it up at some point thing, but no, I don't think I do.

But yes, there are lots of little throwaway lines where they will mention a substance or something that is going to not do a human baby good at all or it's just a completely foreign substance. But yeah, they were definitely. She went out of her way to say it was a home remedy, you know, like these herbs really should do the trick. But yeah, Buck is in a panic. He's just like he's the most. Buck is the most concerned babysitter ever. And I don't know if I mention it later, y'all, but this is the second time we've gotten a really good look at the Vesna puppet.

And the Vesna puppet. It is a robot baby. And I say that I mean, my wife found it to be haunting. I'm looking at it appreciative as a fan of Howard the Duck or the technology that they put into making a robot baby back in 1989. Ninety, because we did not have the circuitry that was that good at that kind of thing. So they made a robot babyface that could kind of do this cry squint thing and it's good, but I wondered if it was like just a puppet with strings inside you could pull. So when Buck hands baby Vesna to Susan, I followed Susan's hands.

I just assumed. And the camera does kind of cut away, but it cuts back and you can see Susan is holding it with both hands visible for moments, and her little face still does move. So this is a robot Vesna. She's, she's a kooky little critter, but yeah, she's, she's a robot face. I'm, I'm a big fan of at least the technology. They do say lots of strange stuff. You have any more negatives? Nope, Nope. That's all for me. Well, the last thing I want to mention is just And this could fall under shoddy police work, but I can't really blame Sykes for this.

So in this episode, after it is established that the killer is essentially coordinating murders with the reporter to get better news coverage, telling the reporter I'll be killing somebody outside the Lowe's at about 7:00 PM. Matt, you know, hollowed eyes, sunken cheeks is like, we need a trail. Burns and Francisco and Captain Grazer are both, like, looking at each other like, hey, man, no way. That's not right. This was really hard for me because police following everybody in these shows is like standard operating procedure.

They follow a person without evidence or, or just cause. Like that's just their default. I know off the top of my head of the the one with the dad taking the boys to the terrible violent movies and stuff. You've got them following people around, but they love following people. So it's just like, yeah, obviously follow Burns in a car 20 feet away. I'm not sure that is illegal. I mean, you can say harassment, but is there anything stopping me from getting in my car and just spending the next three days following Todd half a block away?

You know, if he calls the cops, I think they can knock on my window and say, hey, what are you doing? And I can say I'm just driving, what's the big deal? But until I like, I don't know, leave a dead chicken outside his house or something, I don't think they have anything on me. So yes, he does eventually follow Burns and it leads him right to the killer. So I'm like, yeah, guys, I got to say Matt had a point on this one. Yes, that's it for me for the saltwater. So now connecting the spot, I'll be honest, I really only have one thing here and we've kind of already mentioned it.

And that is that Michelle Lamar Richards makes her third of seven appearances as Doctor Lois Allen. There are 6 from the series. One of those is uncredited. And then there's also one TV movie. I think it's the first TV movie. Yeah, yeah. And, and I like her. I know we, you've kind of described how we bounced around from one corner to another. It's it's nice that we have a little bit of consistency with her. And I think she might be one of the nicest ones. Yeah, she Jenny Gago, she was in we have a a David E Kelley running theme in this show and she's been in Boston Public and Ally Mcbeal.

She was in West Wing, which Todd likes the sci-fi series, The Invisible Man, Quantum Leap X-Files, Inner Space, Max Headroom. She's got a really good pedigree for fun fringe sci-fi shows. And this is yeah, this is her first appearance, but like you said, she returns quite a bit. The only real world analogies I had or analogies to other shows is I've never seen the Jake Gyllenhaal movie Nightcrawler where a slimeball reporter is like out there filming horrible horrible things to just make his career better.

I'd assume that there are some similarities, but I will say in the book Red Dragon, which is really the first Hannibal Lecter story and it came out about 10 years before this, there is a similar slimeball reporter who likewise is eventually taken prisoner by the serial killer and Burns almost ends up the same way. I don't want to spoil it. The movie, there's two movies and I haven't seen the first one, but the movie I saw the second one with Ed Norton is pretty good. If you guys haven't seen it, Red Dragon.

But yeah, there were some very stark similarities where a reporter is chasing down leads for a serial killer with no interest in catching them and the serial killers like, hey, something I like about you, buddy. Well, it goes very differently in Red Dragon. There is a big, big star in this episode with a pretty cool credit. Do you know who I'm talking about? Is it Tobin Bell? It is Tobin Bell. Our our serial killer Brian Knotts is Tobin Bell. And you guys, I mean, maybe you know him from The West Wing, Stargate, The Flash Man and Machine, but this is the guy from Saw.

He's in every Saw movie except Spiral. He is the killer from the OG. So yeah, Tobin Bell. And honestly, he has had a long career playing killers more often than is healthy. He's got a creepy look about him. Tobin Bell, a pretty cool name, but yes. And, and fun fact listeners, he also is an uncredited waiter in the background in Tootsie. You can look it up. It's bizarre, like the scene at the end of the movie where you realize the killer was there all along. Tobin Bell, that was really cool. When I saw his name come up on the screen, I was like, really?

I'm not a huge fan of horror films but I like to know like my classics like it's literature. Am I right that he's the kind of actor that often plays villains? He he's played the serial killer. I'm going to guess if even if you ignore saw 5 or 6 times, like I think casting directors will see him come in and be like, oh, that guy unsettles me. We'll yeah, we'll totally cast him like Billy Drago or there's a few other actors that just they have a sort of unsavory look about them. Like, yeah, yeah, that that guy could take a man's life.

Yeah. So Tobin, that's his career. He's done some other stuff, but that's the big one. Robert Allen Brown is the foreman we mentioned who said sorry about the the hard hats. He's in Misfits of Science, various American hero Incredible Hulk which shares a lot of production staff, and the quickly forgotten very short run show Wizards and Warriors which I love for the 5 minutes it was on when I was a kid. There's a character listed as Dutchman who I'm guessing is just the booking desk officer Ivory Ocean.

He was in Sliders in the mask I had already mentioned. Yeah I won't go back into the corner but y'all need to look her up, she's great. Emily's friend Cindy was in The X-Files, the weird science series. Her name's Heather McComb. She's in. Stay tuned to the John Ritter, Pam Dauber jumping channels in Hell movie that I like very much but is a largely forgotten thing. And for you comic book fans, they tried to make an X-Men live action TV show in 1996 called Generation X with the sort of B team that they would do.

And The CW years later. And Heather McComb, Cindy, that little girl just a handful of years later, played Jubilee, live action Jubilee. That's, yeah, just some fun kooky trivia. And that is it for connecting the spots. Except unless the IMDIMDB is wrong, I think this is Jeff Doucette's last appearance as slimeball reporter Burns. So he got to kind of go out with a bang. Yeah, because I'm pretty sure we've already mentioned how he's no longer the opening credits, which makes it really unusual that he's back for his most significant role, but he has to come back as a guest star rather than as a Maine cast member.

Maine. Ish. And in that book I mentioned every once while Alienation, the unofficial companion, the writer of that book, points that help to you were also talking about the movie. What was it Red Dragon that is also mentioned in here? So they also point out that connection and they mentioned Manhunter. Did you, did you mention that? That's that's the first version of Red Dragon that came out. OK, yeah, so that was pointed out here too. Yeah, I've heard that it's better, but yes, I won't go into that.

I think I can kind of skip ahead here because our next section is the Albert Einstein Award and we've mentioned a couple times this is a human centric episode. I tried so hard, y'all. I mean, there were previous episodes we've done where I got you the names of blood donors that were never seen on screen. They just said their newcomer names. I got nothing. Nothing in this episode. Did you find anything? No. And I'll be honest, I didn't try that hard. It's just, I mean, when you think about the content of the episode, it would be hard not granted you have done pretty well finding like you said things on computer screens and just drive by mentions of somebody.

But I didn't even think there was that. So I confess I didn't try that hard. But I mean I still come up empty. Well, since I didn't find anything, you were wise to not try too hard. So that takes us to, well, I have to talk about this. There's a few things that I've just got to bring up and I'm I'm confident I have more of these than you do. Burns, the slimeball reporter. I I just introduce him that way every time He has an editor. And in this episode, apparently he has a whole team of lawyers. But to save time and money, we never actually see any of them.

Even his office is empty. He like that when they knock on his door, he yells at the door, hey, tell him take a message. I'm bit. We never see. So these are all. This is a huge cast that is just off screen, just off camera by a little bit, but yeah. So when when Matt went to his place, I thought that that was an apartment. So you're saying it was an office inside of a newspaper building? Well, whoever knocks on the door, he tells them to take a message. So yeah, it's, I don't know. I feel like when he's being held captive by the killer, he says he needs to go to his office.

And we know he has an editor. He writes, I have this. He writes for the Los Angeles Tribune. That's where his doctor death article is published. Fun fact for y'all TV heads, Lou Grant for Mary Tyler Moore, when he had his own show, he wrote for the fictional Los Angeles Tribune. But I think it's just made-up. They like to use that. It's made. But yeah, he's got a paper. He's I think it was an office. But you're right, it's hard to tell. But again, I really was not paying super attention. I was not exactly enthralled in that particular subplot.

So yeah, I think that I may have just missed it. The thing that they're hanging Vestna in for her ceremony, we see them assembling it at the beginning and we mentioned them using words that are odd when they're asking if it's strong enough for it to hold Vestna. And Buck, who's helping his dad assemble it, says, I think this, Spore wrote, could hold a dozen Zepno players carrying full knee Lexia.

Now. I did. I'm sorry y'all, I wanted to but I did not go back and look at the game episode and see if the weird instrument almost looking gift that Thomas Edison gave George and Susan was a knee Lexia. But I'm going to guess it wasn't or a Zepno. It might have been. I can't verify or deny that, but it would have been cool if it was. But yeah, a spore rote is a hanging cradle for this one ceremony that they have to rig up. Buck, you better take her off the oscillator. She's had plenty today. So Vesta is in a bassinet that just gently jiggles you.

And we used to. We used to, I swear, not just rockers. We used to have these things in the States that he'd put a baby in and it would just kind of bop them slowly, like just. But the oscillator was. That was funny. Buck goes over to quickly take her off the oscillator, but his dad's already getting Vesna out of the oscillator. So Albert says that the Mukti Booty is like a christening, except Mukti Booty not only embraces the new life into the arms of Antarco and Celine, but into the hearts of the family, too.

And he gestures, fists over his two hearts. So when he says into the hearts of the family, too, it's double plural. It's not like the family has hearts amongst them, but each of the family members has hearts. And he gestures toward his two hearts, which is just like this. I don't know. Makes my brain itch. But it's like you're their hearts. Buck wears a peace symbol on his weird little vest thing he's wearing. I don't know. I don't know what that's about. I know that Uncle Moodri struck me as a hippie, but it could just be a coincidence.

Ornamentation, Albert says. Now the gifts you give her are symbolic of what you are responsible for teaching her. Oh, and you already went through some of this. But Buck said excitedly. I should have the vessel for Celine ready for the gift offerings. And, and he walks them through it all. Albert does, but Buck is just super stoked about, I don't know, I guess it's he's the one who's making the vessel, which is a big weird Pier 21 vase, but like way too fat with a small hole at the top. I mean, according to this, they don't name it.

George just says it's a Tanktonese travel stone. Did you say? I know you mentioned the idea of Burns giving Albert a cigarette and being a jerk, but did you mention what happens to Albert? He basically seizes up. Yeah, it's like he's it's like he gets a horrible case of the shivers or shakes or he's having a fit. He's like, I don't think I'm going to have anymore hands it back to him, which is a great way to get out of that conversation. But yes, he does not does not deal well with that, which is interesting.

I mean, if, if you are menaced by a newcomer, you could hypothetically blow smoke in their face if you were a smoker and it might really mess with them. And we found out earlier they've never brought it up again, but they switched out all of their fire extinguishers because the Tanktonese react badly to them. So in a pinch, you could spray a newcomer with fire extinguisher that hasn't been upgraded and they will probably pass right out. Matt references other serial killers with names in the media because Burns has named this serial killer Doctor Death, and he mentions even one of yours, George, you know, which I assume is the killer from the Night of Screams.

But I don't think they said this name in the Night of Screams, but he said it's the the slag town slaughterer. Do you remember that? And George is like, I'll never forget. And it occurred to me that they haven't really been using the phrase slag town for several episodes. A while ago, they started using the phrase little tanked on for one area of town that I thought might be the same area, but they've kind of stepped away from using the phrase slag town. And even in this, it's like a they brought it in for the catchy name of a killer.

But yeah, I think the show has kind of moved away from that. Yeah, yeah. And I've definitely seen a progression of Matt. In fact, this isn't necessarily directly related to this episode, but just something I've noticed as we've watched the series. We've got some of his back story now, and so I can't help but wonder if Matt is technically not racist exactly as much as maybe he is whenever he has had a lack of sensitivity. Maybe it is coming from his upbringing through either his father, his uncle, or both.

He did not have a good relationship with his dad and I think his dad was an alcoholic. If I remember correctly, he stayed with his uncle a whole lot and looked up to his uncle. But nobody's perfect, so maybe this might have been a fault of his uncle too. And so I think because really Matt has gotten along with people of other ethnicities as long as they were human. His mentor was black, his former partner was black, he's gotten along with with Asians, Latinos. He doesn't seem to mind anybody even when it comes with the tanked knees.

I mean, we saw in the very first episode that he went out of his way to defend Emily, but that was also the same episode where he was trying to tell take the knees jokes, newcomer jokes and in using racial slurs and stuff like that. And so I think deep down, it's not so much that he has anything against anybody, it's just that I think he's a little bit dumb at times when it comes to topics of sensitivity and things you're not supposed to say. Yeah. I mean, maybe some people might disagree, but if there are such things as Shades of Grey to racism or prejudice, I think he's somewhere in the middle.

And we've also had along the way an episode where, and if I remember correctly, this is one of your favorite things about that particular episode, if not the whole season, where George kind of implies Matt, you're worth it. So Matt or George kind of puts up with some of the stuff that Matt says because he knows that Matt has the ability to change. And we've definitely seen some of that progression. So and, and I think the rest of the series has kind of followed suit along with Matt. Yeah, Yeah, there is.

And I mean, we when, when it first started, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is so much more about race than I even thought it was. And it was for, I think, 5 or 6 episodes. And then it started to try a few other things while still being heavily about, like, alien culture. But occasionally, it'll dip its toe back in. Yeah. When George confirms to Zepeda that he put Sykes on the plane for Hawaii. And this was when she was calling him Spaceman. One of those times when he says, yeah, I put him on the plane myself just an hour ago or something.

Before she goes to the door, she says, Slima, you should be there by now, Slima. And we first heard Slima in the episode of Little Lost Lamb. George uses it with a lascivious tone in that episode to mean like an easy woman. But I guess it could mean like easy peasy or like cooperative or something. Yeah. So the pain is interesting. She's like, but she's turning into a cool word like that was a breeze. Put him on the plane slim. We see the we see our white gold sour milk billboard again in a new spot for I think the third time.

So I really thought there was going to be a lot more advertising in this show and there is not. I was wrong. It's mostly mostly that same billboard being moved around in a couple of jugs. After Matt bugs the phone in Burns office, we listen in on a call where Burns orders hit the usual. You remember what his usual was taught. No. It was a tuna sandwich and 1/5 of Scotch. Oh, OK, so. 1/5 of Scotch listeners is a fair amount of Scotch if you don't know. I know a fifth sounds small, but it's it is a large bottle.

Not the largest, but a large 1. So this actor is not playing Burns as though he's drunk. Burns has problems if his usual order is like a sandwich and 1/5 of Scotch. Like he orders those in equal quantity. Wow, that's that's staggering. Buck is casually sewing on the stools for the ceremony. I thought that was really cool. Matt stops George when they're about to go into the building for the final showdown because he's been having flashbacks to how he screwed up as a rookie years ago in his little beat top outfit.

And he had a standoff with the very same killer. And the guy got away after shooting Matt as he put his gun down in the standoff. Well, one of the things he didn't do is he didn't call for backup and he just rushes in to try and save the lady's life and it all goes terribly wrong. So in this one, George is about to get out of the car and Matt like, puts a hand on him. Wait. And he picks up the radio and he calls for backup. Let's go. Wait, this is one way in 152 request backup the Old Harbor Gazette building, 3275 Dock Point Rd.

possible 155 P in progress. Now let's go. So it tells us the viewer at least he's learning his lesson since last. Time. And I mean, he wasn't calling for backup in the pilot movie. He wasn't calling for backup. Oh, when they're going through the dark building, we found out that tanked knees have better vision in the dark and Matt can't see and George says take my hand. And these two guys, they hold hands for a while and it was adorable. Yeah, and the more you list these things, the more it makes me realize that even though I kind of had a problem with the subplot this week, this is one of those episodes that really brings together a lot of elements from previous episodes.

And, you know, the episode that came right before this, if I remember correctly, was called Real Men. And that was the one that had to do with bodybuilders and George being pregnant and what really defines a real man and stuff like that. And it ends with these two completely straight men kind of having to hug with one of them shirtless but but and not out of any, you know, sexual way. It was because they were trying to keep the newborn baby warm. And then we kind of continue in this episode with him holding hands.

But again, it's not in any kind of affectionate way. It's basically one person guiding the other. And so we're starting to see a little bit of the breakdown of the, is it machismo or machismo? But basically Matt is not acting as much of A caveman as he used to either. He's he's starting to calm down in those ways too. So not only is he shedding some of his racism, prejudice, whatever you want to call it, insensitivity, but he's also able to patch in a little bit to a sensitive side or is female side or sensitive side, or at the very least not not feel like every single thing has to be masculine.

Well, it is the way that it is done in this shot, y'all. It's not a thing at all. Like Matt doesn't look at the camera. He doesn't like, shrug or roll his eyes or seem exasperated or pause. It's nothing. It is literally like, put your hand on my shoulder or something. It means nothing. It was just, I thought it was kind of adorable. But we are American men are very, very trained to be terrified of the hint of a lack of masculinity. So it's it's just, it's sweet. But it's just, Yeah. Like the show is doing these things that our modern culture in the 20 twenties would just.

A lot of people would be fanning themselves at how. Ha, you're pushing some narrative. But yes, it was just no, no, let me get you through the dark because I can see and you can't. Which brings me to them looking out for Jingle wire. So it's like he says it as though that's a thing we all know and there are. Sure enough, there was wire in the place that was rigged to Jingle if you walk into it. But I've never heard anybody say Jingle wire that was that's kind of a big deal. I guess maybe it's a thing, or maybe the writers just thought it was tripwires.

I've heard tripwires but. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm the same way. Because I was like, what does Jingle wire mean? And I thought maybe it was like they were worried it was rigged for a bomb or something. But I guess the Jingle part of it means that it's something that just makes noise to alert somebody that that somebody's nearby. Yeah. I think in most of the stories I've heard it, whether it sets off a bomb or trips you or trips an alarm that jingles, it's still just tripwire. But yeah, Jingle wire.

There you go. When Matt says he'll teach best now, how great. Oh, yeah, I already said he puts the stone in. So that I think that brings us to the score. Oh no. Oh, you got one? Oh yeah, you want to do the thing? Yeah, So let me see, from the Unofficial Companion to Alien Nation, there's a little bit of behind the scenes information and two of these paragraphs I'll just read straight from the book. Coast Story editor Stephen Mitchell says it could have been on any show. You didn't need the aliens there, but it was something the network asked for.

Basically, they had just gotten a fresh batch of audience research. And what usually happens then is that they throw themselves into a panic and say our research shows that Matt Sykes is underdeveloped and we need to give him more emotional impact. That's basically what the whole thing was about. It turned out very well, but it would have been nice to have a little bit more alien aspects to it. So even the Co story editor kind of agrees with with my complaint. But it's interesting to hear that it was that they did audience research in the 1st place and that people were saying they didn't get enough of Matt Sykes.

I'm like, I'm getting a little too much of Matt Sykes. So. So it's interesting. And they call him underdeveloped. I thought he he was getting a pretty decent back story. Yeah, we've had. Tons of Sykes development. I think you could. It's recently occurred to me that it's really the George Francisco Show, and Sykes is his bumbling sidekick. But you could totally see the whole show as Sykes is the slowly evolving hero over time and George is a straight man, patiently dealing with him as he comes to terms with stuff.

But yeah, I mean, lots of character development. I don't know. Yeah, maybe they're the opposite of us and they don't like cultural development and they're like, hey, one more story is about the the cop. You make sense. And then one more paragraph. This is shorter. Eric Pierpoint's only comment regarding the segment is how effectively Gary Graham portrays Sykes obsession quote. He was just so raw in that episode. I think it's one of his best episodes. And then let me see, there was one other paragraph from Gary Graham's comments, but it's longer, so I'm paraphrasing it.

Gary Graham said that the actors were asked about any scenarios they wanted covered. They were asked us by the writers and Gary Graham had an idea for Sykes to go deep undercover and to become a renegade cop to catch a killer. And while the details turned out different, this the in this episode, the scenario was basically the gist of crossing the line. So he wasn't exactly undercover, but it was Gary Graham or Sykes kind of having his own side obsession. And then lastly, he just simply said that he loved this episode.

Yeah. And then I've got the weekly wheel of press kit and usually I spin the wheel twice, but since this is our last appearance of Jeff Doucette, I figured I would only do one roll at random. And Jeff Doucette's his actor profile in the press kit is is pretty short. It just says that as burns and over anxious tabloid photographer Jeff Doucet adds a splash of unscrupulous. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's misspelled, unscrupulous humor to a storyline that conveys a very serious message to viewers.

He'll do just about whatever it takes to get the the day's big story. Although Jeff is usually recognized for his talent as a comedian, he is also an accomplished dramatic theatre actor. He is performing over 50 productions nationwide, including major roles in Gulls, Burren in the Trees and Getting Out. He started his professional career in comedy as a member of Chicago's well known Second City Improvisation Theater touring company. Jeff is best known as Harley Estrin, the unemployed, eternally optimistic friend of Tom Poston and Bob Newhart in Newhart, but he is familiar to TV audiences throughout dozens of guest appearances.

Honestly, there was a time in my life when Newhart was like one of the greatest things that existed, and I have a feeling when I go back and revisit that again, again, it's just going to be great. Yes, there are people like do set that we're just always solid and fun to see everything. But yeah, I wouldn't have known if you hadn't pointed it out. Most of the background characters in New Heart, I've completely forgotten their names or what they did. Yeah. Yeah, I think I used to watch with a kid, but it's it's been a long time.

All right, so that was my targeted one. Now just do the random one. So this is from Michelle Scarabelli's profile in the press kit as Susan Francisco. My hope, says Michelle, is to develop and explore basic assumptions we have about gender roles by seeing Earthlings through the eyes of someone completely different. Susan Francisco is compassionate, warm, and intellectually diverse. Even though she's an alien, Susan possesses the same maternal characteristics and instincts that any caring and dedicated mother has.

She cooperates and respects the wishes of her husband George, says Michelle. Susan feels strongly about integration and assimilation within her new community, but her allegiance is first and foremost with her children, Buck and Emily. And then we see one paragraph second page as alien newcomer Susan Francisco. Michelle surprisingly admits, even though Susan has her problems, her large spotted head, for example. I've never played such a normal character before. Yeah. So, yeah, that was that was a neat little entry there.

Yeah, she is definitely a really good mother. And it's, it's, it's interesting to to hear her say that this is her most normal role. Well, she this is the most I guess Florence Henderson Brady Bunch mom episode for her. Like I she's gotten to do some pretty kooky things and she's been sitting on the couch eating wood chips and in this she is there largely to smile and say that's OK and you know, your father's right. That's just this was a very, very middle of the road would for her. But yeah, I love Michelle Scarabelli and I think this show, just before we started doing the podcast, when we first started, I just talked about that at its core, I remembered from being a kid that I just love the Francisco's like even Buck a little bit, I guess more so now.

But they're just an adorable family. So she's she's just very pretty, but sweet as punch. Are we ready to rate? Oh well, one other thing. So without going into into any spoilery details, like I said, I've kind of skimmed ahead and in fact, I play the episode while we're discussing and it's autumn. We've already passed this episode, it's on to the next episode. But this reminds me that next week's episode is also going to be very matte centric. So I can't help but wonder if this is another result of those audience surveys saying that they weren't getting enough of Matt because he's basically got 2 back-to-back episodes that focus on him.

Yeah, yeah. Well, Eric Pierpoint could act his way out of a box. So, you know, they can give him whatever they want to give him. He'll still shine, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. We will see that's I'm going into all of these cold even if I have some time and I'm like, I'll go ahead. I'm prepped on this week. I'll take a look at next week. I want to be able to come to you guys and talk about an episode balancing Todd by having no clue what happened. So I am going in completely blind. And when I read you guys the the summary for the next week, I'm sort of like, gosh, I wonder what that means.

I'm slow too, so it took me a long time to figure out why 3 to tango is called 3 to tango. I really thought it was just about dancing. Most. Yeah, Good, good, good. Looking forward to next week. So you want to go 1st 04 scores? Sure. Yeah, So mine might be kind of obvious. I'm giving this one AB minus and part of me almost wonders if I should bump it up to AB after our discussion because like like I said, this does have a lot of elements of past episodes. Our first appearance is to pay that. There is a lot of good stuff in here.

I think the thing that does drag it down is the the serial killer subplot, which like I said isn't necessarily done badly. It's just I'm not interested. So it might be my own fault, but I feel like I've seen this episode a couple times. Like I think I watched it a few weeks ago, had to watch it again for this recording, and I feel like I'm feeling the same way about that subplot both times that I'm kind of going into it not caring, but then at the same time the episode doesn't do a great job of making me care.

So for now I'm going to keep my B minus. Yeah, I always give a Star Trek alumni score or an STA. This episode had a base for with Sykes, Mr. and Misses Francisco and Grazer. Like most of the episodes. This is our second four in two weeks in a row. Listeners, the network may shut us down. Y'all, we better have some serious alums next week to keep the lights on. So remember, your likes and follows are what makes the difference. We are. We're at a rock bottom here with Star Trek alumni showing up in the show.

Also, I rate these episodes on a watch skip basis because I tend to want to see something straight through every episode. I'm a purist, I don't want to miss anything but I know that in modern times y'all have a lot to watch so you may want to see. I know I even really need to see this one. You do not have to watch this episode. There's nothing wrong with it. I enjoyed it but it's more of what we've already seen. I like that it connected to previously established lore like A Night of screams, Little Lost Lamb 15 with Wanda.

And this is the first time you're seeing Zepeda, which they literally introduce her like she's not just at the station now, but she has an intro and everything. So that's that's valuable because she's going to be around a lot. But if you are jumping around, I think you can jump this one. Interesting. Yeah, I don't obviously skip very often, but yeah, this was, I don't think anything crucial happened. I mean, they started with Vesna, they ended with Vesna. Everybody loves each other, Everybody still loves each other.

Zepeda is the big difference. So I think now that brings us about to the end of our show. Join us next time coming up on alienating ourselves as we explore episode 19, Rebirth. When Sykes comes back after being pronounced dead, what? He becomes obsessed with finding the newcomer he believes healed him. I mean, I would be, too. I think everybody would be looking for the dude that resurrected somebody. Yeah. So TuneIn. To not only find out about Matt's apparent near death experience, which I didn't know about, but also to find out why George and the others don't think it's a big deal.

To track down the person. And I guess TuneIn. To see if Matt finds out who the mysterious alien is. But we all know he'll find out. So spoiler alert, he finds out all that and more. Next time on alienating ourselves, I continue to be Nick. I'm Todd. Thank you for listening to us, especially if you're on vacation or busy trying to heal your baby with homeopathic medicine. We'd love to see some reviews wherever you listen to podcasts. If you love us, like us, or find us slightly less annoying than an incessant photojournalist who never goes away, please give us five stars.

If you'd rather listen to the crazed, dogmatic manifesto of a serial killer than listen to us, please give us four stars. If you give us three stars or lower, you will never go on vacation again. Ever, as always, may all your milk be as fresh or as sour as you prefer it to be. And whether you're an adult, a teen, a child or a newborn, may you also be blessed with special people in your life helping you with tradition, love, spirituality and or honor. Have a great week. And good night, everybody.